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Automotive News & Views What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?
8687 messages, Last post on Dec 04, 2009 at 10:14 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: ateixeira (Nov 07, 2008 9:23 am) Well, Nippononly claims he can meet or beat that, so I guess it's conceivable. I have a friend who used to have a 1990 Dodge Dynasty with the 3.3 V-6 and 4-speed automatic (the one infamous for early failure), then a 1995 Nissan Maxima with a 5-speed, and now he has a 2001.5 Passat with the V-6/stick. He claims he's been able to get upper 30's and even lower 40's on occasion, with all of them. I've ridden with him a few times, and he would drive so slow it would scare me! He'd also do stuff like turn off the car and let it coast. I guess it would be possible for those stick-shift cars to get that kind of economy if you try hypermiling. They were probably EPA rated around 29-30 highway anyway, which would probably mean raw numbers of around 38-40. I have no idea how he got the Die-Nasty to get that kind of economy though...it was only rated at 19/26. He has a 2002 or so BMW 5-series, that he bought about a year ago. I rode with him last year on a trip, and he was getting around 31-32 mpg. Mostly highway driving, but he was getting a bit aggressive. It's a stick shift, and I think was rated around 21/30. So if you can actually get aggressive with a stick shift and still beat the EPA estimate, it really makes me wonder why the EPA tends to rate stickshift cars so low to begin with? The only time I've really been able to beat the EPA estimates with an automatic transmission car is to drive it gently. And with my uncle's 2003 Corolla, that STILL didn't quite do the trick. It was EPA-rated at 38 highway, and I got 37.4. Okay, so maybe that's close enough, but doing the same type of old lady driving got my 29 mpg highway Intrepid up to about 32.5!
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Replying to: boaz47 (Nov 07, 2008 10:06 am) That Saturn SC-1 was rated 27/37 under the old system (23/33 now). You drove a lot of highway and got 36 MPG on average. Sounds like you got about what it was rated. While you don't tell us whether or not the SL was the SOHC or the DOHC engine (or even if it was actually new), I'll assume it was the DOHC and a 2002. With an automatic, it is rated at 24/34 under the old system, 21/31 under the new system. Those numbers (21/31) are the same as my 166hp 2006 Accord! I'd say things have certainly improved, with powerful midsize cars getting the same mileage that sub-130hp subcompacts were getting 6 or 7 years ago. |
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Replying to: boaz47 (Nov 07, 2008 10:06 am) They are smaller but they are still driving the same speeds. You can't get a tiny engine as tall as you can gear a big one. Look at the Corvette. 6th gear is something like 0.5:1. That's because the big, torquey engine can handle it without bogging down. When you use a small engine 1.6l, or even 600cc, you can't really gear them that tall. They would bog down badly or perhaps even stall. andre: my reaction was to the EPA's unadjusted numbers.
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Replying to: ateixeira (Nov 07, 2008 12:12 pm) ( I will give you a break and not mention the WRC standings today.)  But I now understand why the Smart car has been in the red in Europe for just about day one. So many of these sub compacts just don't offer much more than smallness. And cars like the smart don't even offer low entry cost compared to established compacts.
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Replying to: ateixeira (Nov 07, 2008 9:23 am) 54 highway of course was the number for the stick shift, NOT the automatic (big difference in the case of the Echo). I managed 51 mpg in my Echo running around 63 mph steadily for almost 400 miles without A/C. I could EASILY see getting 54 mpg running at 55 mph all day long, although I doubt I would ever have the patience to do so. |
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Replying to: boaz47 (Nov 07, 2008 1:23 pm) Lots of Kas, Legiers, Kalos, Aixams, etc. to choose from over there. Harder for the smart to stand out and make a buck. Let me plug my photo album. 
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Replying to: steve_ (Nov 07, 2008 2:11 pm) 
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Replying to: andre1969 (Nov 06, 2008 1:40 pm) if you took the train ride from dc to nyc, you might be tempted to rent a car for the return trip. |
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Replying to: steve_ (Nov 07, 2008 2:11 pm)
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Replying to: boaz47 (Nov 07, 2008 5:19 pm) Wild guess, since I don't anything about them other than what's on their web site.
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