You are here: Forums Automotive News & Views What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

8676 messages,  Last post on Dec 02, 2009 at 1:07 PM

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What is this discussion about? Nissan Versa, Toyota Yaris, Honda Fit, smart fortwo, MINI Cooper

#8085 of 8676 Re: The earlier model is more plain [andre1969] by lilengineerboy Sep 28, 2008 (3:27 pm)
Replying to: andre1969 (Sep 28, 2008 1:42 pm) What I miss are vehicles like the Sprint Turbo or the Suzuki Swift GTI. The Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo and its Dodge brother were fun too as was the Mazda 323 GTX and the original and second generation Civic or CRX SIs. I think that is a by-gone era though, and having anything be small AND fun seems to be beyond the realm of the current marketplace. In Europe they have the Focus RS and I think they have an upgraded Fiesta as well. Those would be something that might actually be fun to drive, as opposed to sephia's example of being fun to not-drive.
#8086 of 8676 Re: oh for PETE'S SAKE!! [boaz47] by nippononly Sep 29, 2008 (9:15 am)
Replying to: boaz47 (Sep 27, 2008 8:05 am) Yes, the CVT is going to be insidiously tempting to manufacturers of subcompacts in the next few years, I fear.   As for the ongoing debate of Metro vs Festiva, I would definitely go with the Metro, which was of course a rebadged Suzuki Swift, a car I very much wish was being sold new in the States today. Too bad we have until some indefinite future date to see that car stateside again...   Having said that, I will add that I had a friend with a Festiva, which she called Snoopy due to its weird looks, and try as she might she just could NOT kill that car - despite years of total neglect it was still going strong at 150K without any powertrain work except for new axles (the CVs were finally shot just prior to that mileage) Replies to this message: boaz47 (Sep 29, 2008 11:52 am) nippononly (Sep 29, 2008 12:02 pm) lilengineerboy (Sep 29, 2008 7:54 pm)
#8087 of 8676 Re: oh for PETE'S SAKE!! [nippononly] by boaz47 Sep 29, 2008 (11:52 am)
Replying to: nippononly (Sep 29, 2008 9:15 am) "Yes, the CVT is going to be insidiously tempting to manufacturers of subcompacts in the next few years, I fear."   It is the simplicity and projected lightness that makes it so tempting. That and the predillation the Japanese have for single automotive lines and limited engine and transmission options. Nissan is the tip of the iceberg I believe. Hybrids have given the CVT a boost even though they aren't true CVTs. As more cars move towards hybrid, fuel cell and EV the light weight requirement will move manufacturers towards simpler light transmissions.   For small cars and sub compacts to make it in the modern market they have to get lighter and provide far better fuel mileage than they do today. Yes they get better fuel mileage than a mid sized car but not enough over a compact to overcome the American consumers price per pound mind set.   Look at the happy horse manure we had in this forum with the predicted coming of the Smart. It was going to put the sub compact on the map with outstanding fuel mileage in excess of what a Yaris or fit could get by 10 MPG. Well it is here and they have had them on the road long enough and it simply hasn't lived up to the hype. 40 MPG just isn't good enough to give up a back seat. There is a reason it has been in the red in Europe for all these years and if they don't find a way to get 60 MPG from that little thing in will end up in the red after four or five years hear as well. Replies to this message: nippononly (Sep 29, 2008 12:02 pm) lilengineerboy (Sep 29, 2008 7:54 pm)
#8088 of 8676 Re: oh for PETE'S SAKE!! [boaz47] by nippononly Sep 29, 2008 (12:02 pm)
Replying to: boaz47 (Sep 29, 2008 11:52 am) Don't forget though that the CVT still has not reached weight parity with the manual. Just as one example I pulled up the Versa here at Edmunds: the curb weight is 2718 for the 6-speed manual, 2758 for the CVT, so the manual still has the edge.   And when I began all this talk I was referring to the Yaris 5-door, which will be at Toyota dealers soon, and is not a CVT but rather an antiquated 4-speed auto. Still, it is a small step forward, as it becomes the new champ of fuel economy among 5-doors available in the US. One day soon Toyota will feel the pressure from Honda and will begin putting 5-speed autos in all its cars (and dare I hope for a 6-speed manual or two as well? Their press release earlier this year indicated they had a pretty dandy new lightweight, compact 6-speed ready for use in the '09s) Replies to this message: lilengineerboy (Sep 29, 2008 7:54 pm)
#8089 of 8676 Re: oh for PETE'S SAKE!! [nippononly] by lilengineerboy Sep 29, 2008 (7:54 pm)
Replying to: nippononly (Sep 29, 2008 12:02 pm) One day soon Toyota will feel the pressure from Honda and will begin putting 5-speed autos in all its cars (and dare I hope for a 6-speed manual or two as well? Their press release earlier this year indicated they had a pretty dandy new lightweight, compact 6-speed ready for use in the '09s)   Don't hold your breath. Cars peaked in the 90s. The 1998 BMW E36 M3/4 (a sub-compact, in theory) was the peak of automotive revolution and we have been forced into evolutionary steps since then. Very sad.
#8090 of 8676 Nissan Versa 1.6L by thegraduate Nov 05, 2008 (9:01 am)
For 2009, Nissan is offering a new base model Versa Sedan. It starts at $9,990 ($10,990 with A/C). The engine offering is a 1.6L 4-cylinder with 107 horsepower. It is not available with the CVT, only a 4-speed Automatic or 5-Speed manual, not the 6-speed manual offered in other 1.8L Versa models.
#8091 of 8676 word is by nippononly Nov 05, 2008 (9:11 am)
that in a year or two Toyota will go head to head with Versa with a 1.3L Yaris designed to sell around $11K - A/C will remain a standard feature however. I think that's a good idea - most people want it, and a car without A/C is SO hard to resell, it's a disadvantage to the owner.   C&D is saying this month that Toyota is firming up plans to plunk that 1.3 into its iQ (recently introduced for global markets) and bring it to the U.S. in 2010! They plan to sell it as a premium competitor to the likes of Mini and ForTwo, which is a refreshing change coming from Toyota.   100 hp, 1900 pounds, 9 standard airbags including rear-hatch curtain for back seat passengers. And yes, it does have a back seat, 1 position for an adult (behind the front passenger, whose seat is further forward than the driver to achieve this) and one child seat behind the driver. This thing is cute as heck, and I hope they go ahead with these plans, and give it some handling to go with its very spry power-to-weight ratio.   Oh, and they expect it to make 40 mpg combined on the EPA test. That would beat the current gas champ, the ForTwo, which comes in at 38 mpg combined.
#8092 of 8676 Hate to get plowed over by a by iluvmysephia1 Nov 05, 2008 (11:26 am)
Mack truck in a Toyota iQ, though, nippononly. It is a cute body design and a smart idea to import here, IMO. Should go over very well here. Replies to this message: qbrozen (Nov 05, 2008 11:29 am)
#8093 of 8676 Re: Hate to get plowed over by a [iluvmysephia1] by qbrozen Nov 05, 2008 (11:29 am)
Replying to: iluvmysephia1 (Nov 05, 2008 11:26 am) You mean you'd LIKE to get plowed over by a Mack truck in a Camry?   ;P
#8094 of 8676 Rob... by iluvmysephia1 Nov 05, 2008 (11:37 am)
you have a lot of posts on Edmunds, my friend! Wow! And I thought I had a lot of posts with 3702!   No, I don't generally like Camry's, or getting run over by a Mack truck while driving Camry's, but, I rented a 2005 Camry once(new car basically)and it was a quiet ride and a nice car, I must admit. I don't like their styling much, however. Replies to this message: qbrozen (Nov 05, 2008 11:47 am)

You are here: Forums Automotive News & Views What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?