You are here: Forums Automotive News & Views What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

8668 messages,  Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 9:54 AM

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What is this discussion about? Nissan Versa, Toyota Yaris, Honda Fit, smart fortwo, MINI Cooper

#8050 of 8668 Fiesta by ateixeira Sep 15, 2008 (12:08 pm)
I like the current model sold in Brazil, but the prior one was hideous. The new one looks great, so it keeps getting better.   Let me try to find some pics...   Old:     Current:     Coming:     For sure it wins the award for "Most Improved".
#8051 of 8668 Re: a small mea culpa [nippononly] by plekto Sep 15, 2008 (12:55 pm)
Replying to: nippononly (Sep 15, 2008 11:59 am) - ...anticipated gas mileage of 31 miles per gallon in the city and 39 mpg on the highway...    *** So, in other words, it's essentially like all the other subcompacts out there instead of the version the get in the U.K.:   FUEL CONSUMPTION (TDI engine): (urban) 53.3mpg / (extra urban) 76.3mpg / (combined) 65.7mpg (UK)   FUEL CONSUMPTION: (urban) 44.4mpg / (extra urban) 63.5mpg / (combined) 54.7mpg (Converted to U.S. Gallons)   44 / 63 MPG. As usual, the U.S. gets the dumbed-down idiot version foisted off on us. Even with a 20% increase in fuel costs for diesel, that's about 35/51 relative to gasoline. Replies to this message: nippononly (Sep 15, 2008 8:33 pm) plekto (Sep 16, 2008 12:31 pm) alltorque (Sep 16, 2008 1:24 pm) and 1 more...
#8052 of 8668 Re: Give Ford a (little) break! [podred] by dtownfb Sep 15, 2008 (8:30 pm)
Replying to: podred (Sep 15, 2008 12:08 pm) I don't doubt your experiences. I do doubt your conclusions about Honda and toyota. What your reported were not facts, they are your experieinces. Not unless you are the authority on gas mileage...... Read the forums, there are reports of people getting bad gas mileage in all cars. The difference is none of them make outlandish comments about a company's technology. Talking to other Pilot owners is hardly adding data as you mention, many people do not know how to calculate gas mileage. Too many factors go into determining gas mileage. But as an engineer, I'm sure you know this since you are very particular about specifics.   And now you are saying that the poor gas mileage is a characteristic of the V6 because your 2009 Fit gets EPA mileage. Don't you think that is a leap using data from a completely unrelated vehicle to support your conclusion. As an engineer by formal training, I would think you would know this.   BTW, i am also an engineer by formal training and licensed in the state of PA. I know how to determine gas mileage, I also understand statistics and can sniff out BS as well. If you want to question the fuel efficiency in the Pilot based on your two expereinces, that is fine. But to say all Honda V6 engines are gas guzzlers and tha Honda's engine technology is behind Toyota is ludicrous.   Based on what you described and your experiences, stick with Toyota or stay away from SUVs when gas prices are $3.50 per gallon.
#8053 of 8668 Re: a small mea culpa [plekto] by nippononly Sep 15, 2008 (8:33 pm)
Replying to: plekto (Sep 15, 2008 12:55 pm) Nah, the European fuel economy test produces numbers that are way higher than ours every time, even when converted to U.S. gallons. It's just a different test, that's all.   But I bet Europe has smaller slower engines, and we will only be getting the very most powerful engine, because acceleration standards are so much more leisurely in Europe. The smaller slower engines we won't get are the ones producing the best FE numbers, that's for sure. It's the standard formula for bringing a "world car" to the States. Me, I would buy one of the slower models for another 15% savings in gas. Nobody's going anywhere fast when they are stuck in traffic headed to work anyway. 0-60 in 12 seconds and 50 mpg (gas) combined? No sweat! Replies to this message: plekto (Sep 16, 2008 12:31 pm) alltorque (Sep 16, 2008 1:24 pm) lilengineerboy (Sep 26, 2008 3:30 am)
#8054 of 8668 Re: a small mea culpa [nippononly] by plekto Sep 16, 2008 (12:31 pm)
Replying to: nippononly (Sep 15, 2008 8:33 pm) I've heard from friends in the U.K. that the combined figure is pretty close to real world.   And, actually, the area where the diesels lag is in the highway speed. 0-30 they literally jump off the line thanks to tons of torque. Great for city traffic and only really suffer with onramp flogging.(course freeway traffic here in L.A. is rarely above 40mph, so all that speed is moot as you mentioned) Replies to this message: alltorque (Sep 16, 2008 1:24 pm) lilengineerboy (Sep 26, 2008 3:30 am)
#8055 of 8668 Re: a small mea culpa [plekto] by alltorque Sep 16, 2008 (1:24 pm)
Replying to: plekto (Sep 16, 2008 12:31 pm) I'd actually say pretty much the reverse, from personal experience. Off-the-line is OK in most diesels but you're cog-swapping sooner than an equivalent gasser due to smaller rev band. Diesels do really shine once on the move; 40-70, 50-80 as they are right in the torque band without downshifting.   Highway speeds are no problem, (depending upon the car, of course). The Volvo S60 D5 with the 6MT pulls 0-62mph in around 7.6 secs and runs on to 140+mph and that's only a 2.4ltr diesel, not some big lump. The BMW 335d 6AT runs the 0-62mph in a claimed 6.2secs and up to a governed 155mph. The 535d is only 0.2 secs behind it.   As you say, diesels are lovely in city traffic - especially with a good 6AT - but they also excel at low-rev highway cruising..................and great pick-up at low revs. Replies to this message: lilengineerboy (Sep 26, 2008 3:30 am)
#8056 of 8668 oh for PETE'S SAKE!! by nippononly Sep 25, 2008 (8:45 pm)
Toyota has released the 5-door Yaris as an '09, and it will only come with an automatic!!!!   I can't think of ONE plausible reason why they would do that, when both the sedan and 3-door come with a stick and have the SAME POWERTRAIN.   More and more, I just can't STAND Toyota these days...   Replies to this message: boaz47 (Sep 26, 2008 1:17 pm) nippononly (Sep 26, 2008 9:14 pm) boaz47 (Sep 27, 2008 8:05 am) and 4 more...
#8057 of 8668 I just think Kia and even Suzuki beat Toyota hands down by iluvmysephia1 Sep 25, 2008 (8:58 pm)
when it comes to subcompacts. Toyota's "I'll make vanilla-flavored cars to appeal to the masses and then we'll make more money" thing is a big sell-out to true enthusiasts worldwide. They're lo-hoo-ha-hoo-ha-loooooo-sssss-eeeee-rrrr-ss in my automobile producer book. I like this new small Kia, the Soul crossover, and designs like this. They show some creativity and they share the love of automotive design in a more open and creative and delicious manner.   Replies to this message: oregonboy (Sep 25, 2008 10:47 pm) andre1969 (Sep 26, 2008 6:33 am)
#8058 of 8668 Re: I just think Kia and even Suzuki beat Toyota hands down [iluvmysephia1] by oregonboy Sep 25, 2008 (10:47 pm)
Replying to: iluvmysephia1 (Sep 25, 2008 8:58 pm) Puleeeze! Beauty may be only skin deep, but ugle goes clear to the bone! If that sucker had a big cross-hare grill, it could pass for a Dodge Ram. Square SUVish styling with heavy oversized wheels is so passé. Replies to this message: andre1969 (Sep 26, 2008 6:33 am)
#8059 of 8668 Re: a small mea culpa [alltorque] by lilengineerboy Sep 26, 2008 (3:30 am)
Replying to: alltorque (Sep 16, 2008 1:24 pm) I think the European community is much more tolerant of cars that are difficult to use so long as the driving dynamics are correct (Alfa Romeo, BMW, Ford S-max w/"HMI" etc) and the American driving community really couldn't give a rats' backside about driving dynamics as long as it has 27 cupholders and the stereo is easy to use (Toyota Camry, Lexus ES350). It also seems like Europeans like stylized vehicles w/shape while Americans seem to like more basic styling. I think some of these issues also play a roll in moving vehicles back and forth across the pond.

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