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Automotive News & Views What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?
8161 messages, Last post on Dec 03, 2008 at 2:37 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: hudsonthedog (May 05, 2008 9:50 am) HOWEVER, according to the dash computer on my '07 Suburban, I get 16.2 mpg at 55-60 mph, but get 16.5-17.8 mph at a steady 70 mph. (taking into account the engine occasionally shutting down 4-cylinders during BOTH speed range trips) Windows up; no AC. Once the big SUVs get rolling at high speeds, the propagandized Al Gore Hubbard AeroDianetics theory disappears.  55 mph was originally intended to save lives. Saving gas is a myth. For decades, engine manufacturers said 70 mph was their most efficient speed (vis a vis RPMs). Now, like doubting Global Warming, they're afraid to mention the 70 mph fact. 
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Replying to: nippononly (May 06, 2008 6:24 am) Toyota could care less; they're selling plenty of putt-putt Yaris engines for the SmartCar US market. IMHO, Toyota's quality has been going downhill for the past two years. If you're going 'Nippon Only,' Honda is the only way to go.
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Replying to: nippononly (May 06, 2008 6:24 am) Cruise control is a quick mouse-click to JCwhitney away.
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (May 06, 2008 7:28 pm) Toyota just cheaps out so HARD these days. For a few bucks extra, Yaris could take advantage of another whole part of the market. Most buyers don't want the aftermarket hassle of tirerack and JC Whitney when they have just paid for a brand new car.
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Replying to: nippononly (May 06, 2008 9:30 pm) They always did. My non-automotive oriented sister didn't like the previous Corolla because "it felt like it was going to tip over." For $75, Toyota could've had the rear sway bar on there and it would've been fine. It was also impossible to find a model with ABS at that time. On the Toyota website, it says that they package and equip cars how the majority of buyers want them based on regional market research, and who am I to say they are wrong. I am just not the majority.
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (May 07, 2008 2:26 am)
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Replying to: lemmer (May 07, 2008 5:51 am)  Seriously though, part of my angst sources from the fact that I think the Yaris hatch has so many things going for it, it would be nice to see Toyota "finish the job", so to speak. I am eager to see the 2010 Fiesta in a year, I have high hopes for that one what with the Mazda2 mechanicals. I would love to see GM bring the European Corsa here as well, to sell through the Saturn stores. It is a nicer car than GM's current sub for sale here, the Aveo. I am interested to note that VW has skipped over subcompact entirely in its haste to bring a Smart car competitor to the States (the Up! thing from the auto show) - I hope they remember there is a size in between that and the Rabbit, and brings the Polo to the U.S. That car with the little twincharger 1.4 would be an absolute riot to drive, and would probably pull some very decent mpgs as well. |
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Replying to: nippononly (May 07, 2008 7:34 am) The American buyer is only cheap when buying a cheap car. Put them in a mid sized or something other than an entry level sub compact and they option them out with wheels, sun roof, cruise control and navigation center. I do agree that factory upgraded wheels suck compared to after market offerings at better prices. It is just that if you are looking for a economy car like a Yaris in most cases you aren't looking for upgrades. All you are interested in is getting from point A to point B using the least amount of fuel for the least amount out the door. If you are willing to spend more money why get a sub compact? There is simply not all that much advantage in getting a sub compact for 17k if you are close with a mid sized with more options. But after we get back from Colorado I still believe I will get a EV. For my weekly errands there is nothing more than 5 miles from me and the power useage will not be much more than a 150 watt bulb burning for 7 hours. If things don't level off I simply am not interested in a sub compact if they are planning on releasing plug in hybrids or even some Honda EVs by 2010 or 2011. If we are going to get stuck with a little car it might as well be one with real savings and not the stop gap that cars like the Fit and Smart are. As far as fuel mileage goes I can still remember car pooling with a guy in his Rabbit Diesel in 1989 and getting 40 MPG going to and from work commuting together. My neighbor was getting 49 MPG in his Metro not much later. 19 years later 39 doesn't seem like we have made much progress. But it does show people will give up mileage for comfort and safety. |
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Replying to: boaz47 (May 07, 2008 5:14 pm) It is just that if you are looking for a economy car like a Yaris in most cases you aren't looking for upgrades. All you are interested in is getting from point A to point B using the least amount of fuel for the least amount out the door. If you are willing to spend more money why get a sub compact? There is simply not all that much advantage in getting a sub compact for 17k if you are close with a mid sized with more options. And this one: But it does show people will give up mileage for comfort and safety. Are a little at odds with each other. The crux of your argument, which I agree with, is that there isn't enough savings in mileage to warrant going to a smaller vehicle. An example would be my Accord getting in the mid-30s while smaller vehicles only get in the upper 30s. I think people will give up most things for comfort and safety, it just so happens that there isn't enough of an increase in FE to justify the move to a sub-compact. If smaller vehicles were truly competitive in a mass market non-paranoia setting, people would be willing to pay for it.
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (May 07, 2008 5:24 pm) What I was trying to say is we had 50 MPG cars 20 years ago. The sub compact of today does not get better fuel mileage than they did. The reasoning I get from sub compact apoligests is that safety equipment and increased comfort had added weight and so I shouldn't expect better fuel mileage from today's econo-boxes. That was my point. The question I ask is why shouldn't I? 20 years ago my Ford 3/4 ton got 9 MPG no matter how you drove it or what you were hauling. My last Chevy 3/4 ton got 12 to 14. Newer car, heavier and safer and still gets better fuel mileage. My son had an old Bronco that got 9 to 11 miles to the gallon. My Tahoe gets 14 - 16. 20 years newer and gets better fuel mileage. I understand the brand new Tahoe hybrid does even better. The sub compact manufacturers are simply making excuses for selling sub compacts that get compact or mid sized car fuel mileage. If the Rabbit and Metro and Justy were high mileage sub compacts that got better than 40 MPG why 20 years later do we get 15k sub compacts that get 35MPG? We know plug in hybrids are on the way and maybe even some EVs that can be used for commuting. We know Honda is working hard on Fuel cells and we might even get some small diesels. So if fuel savings are our goal then my contention is the new small sub compacts don't deliver on the promise. Better than a F-150 but a F-150 does better than they did 20 years ago, not worse. What I was saying about thongs leveling off is if fuel gets to 5 bucks a gallon it is still a bargain compared to Europe and once we adjusted to it we would want more than what the sub compacts we now have will offer. But if they want to stay in the public eye they will have to do better than 35 MPG. But I don't hold out much hope for a quality sub compact or micro car from VW. It will get great fuel mileage I am sure but you will get to know the service department by name and will only visit you car on weekends. Dependability isn't something we see a lot of in VWs in the US. Every time I pull up the annual JD powers Dependability I start at the bottom and always find VW within the first few makes. Kia has to be breathing a sigh of relief whe they realize they are rated more dependable than a VW. |
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