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Automotive News & Views What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?
8685 messages, Last post on Dec 04, 2009 at 5:05 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: podred (Apr 19, 2008 3:03 pm) To your point, Volkswagen did a series of consumer clinics around the United States (I think it was last year but could've been the year prior) and concluded that while in the European market, it is exclusively about the drive, while in the US market, it is about everything but the drive (witness the Focus, with SYNC is selling so well they have to increase production, while it is less powerful and only about as economical as the outgoing model it replaced.
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Apr 20, 2008 5:25 am) It brings to mind the disgusting, low grade, sleazy, TV shows one only sees in the US. Pretty scary when one thinks about who these shows are being written for. Just one more sobering reminder about who we are surrounded by out on the open road. A bunch of semi alert, hamburger eating, soda sucking, self absorbed bozo's with their foot dancing between the accelerator and the brake pedal, all the while forgetting which one does what..... 
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Replying to: podred (Apr 20, 2008 11:45 am) I understand that there is a group consisting of a minority of driving enthusiasts, and there are a few automobiles made for them (Corvette comes to mind). And, I also cringe when I see those "self-absorbed" folks participating in several functions at once, of which the most miinor one seems to be driving. These folks would be dangerous if they were riding a bicycle, much less driving a 1.5-3 ton bullit. However, to me, at least, I think the idea that every vehicle should be primarily performance designed isn't exactly realistic... |
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Replying to: podred (Apr 20, 2008 11:45 am) Being different from our foreign brothers isn't a bad thing. After all the US consumer represents about 50 percent of the total car buying public in the world. we like power, we like bigger houses we like easy to use. We don't like high taxes we don't like Royalty and we will do what ever it takes to survive even if it means driving smaller cars because we "have to", but we will not ever like it. We want to have our cake and eat it to. After all far more of our foreign cousins are moving here than we are moving there. So if we are stupid think about the ones that want to leave such great places as Europe, Asia, and central America must be to come here and suffer our vehicle choices. To me a total moron would be someone in Japan making and selling a Super bike to the US and not being able to buy one at home. They did that in the 70s and early 80s you know? So in the end it is all a matter of perspective. Do I like small reactive cars? Sure but not as my only choice. Driving is only one facet of my life. It would make me sad if I had to give up hauling my toys to the desert to play in the rocks at the hammers or Rubicon. It is a far more depressing idea that I might not be able to buy a small commuter car the size of a large Quad to drive every day in bumper to bumper traffic. |
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Replying to: boaz47 (Apr 20, 2008 12:30 pm) Oh man what a loaded question. We are the only super power left Hmm, except maybe that place where they are having the Olympics that owns the U.S., makes all of our consumer goods, and is a new user of fossil fuels (although their developing infrastructure uses newer technologies...). Once you get passed the Grapevine heading north out of LA with a good aligned vehicle you can drive for 20 minites without touching the wheel if there is no traffic. Where as in every other civilized nation, people don't live 2 hours from where they work so in 20 minutes they would be there. They have brought European cars here before. The Renault and the Peugeot. We chased them out of the country with torches like movie monsters. Which is ashame since Peugeots had terrific ride quality and were magnificent highway cars. A 505 TD had enough power to move (though not extra) and was reasonably fuel efficient as well. It was a POS but eh, you cant have everything. After all the US consumer represents about 50 percent of the total car buying public in the world. Which means the whole world will get to share in our recession because Americans don't know how to handle credit and lack fiscal responsibility. Starting with the government right down to everyone who took a variable home equity loan to buy a car and go on vacation. we like power, we like bigger houses Yup we just cant afford them as our standard of living drops due to the lack of a middle class. Do I like small reactive cars? Sure but not as my only choice. Driving is only one facet of my life. Its good that you are well balanced in your hobbies...from your description though, do any of your hobbies not consume natural, non-renewable energy sources? I like to restore and repair cars of interest. This actually keeps them off the road more than on the road, so I would argue it conserves fuel. My other main hobby is cycling, and other than competing with bio-fuels for lilengineeringboy fuel, I would argue is environmentally benign. I like a vehicle that gets good fuel economy that allows me to spend any discretionary income on other things, like preparing for retirement, home improvements, and hobbies. My issue is that my Accord gets 34 mpg on my commute and can hold 5 people (including 4 people and an infant seat) comfortably. It has an honest to goodness manual transmission with a pedal that disengages and reengages the drivetrain at my command. It is certified as an LEV. The jump from the Accord to the Fit or the Yaris doesn't gain me enough to warrant the change. It is a far more depressing idea that I might not be able to buy a small commuter car the size of a large Quad to drive every day in bumper to bumper traffic. I think you will; it will be an enclosed box with windows that let light in but you cant see out, and computers will drive the vehicle and handle intersections, etc.
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Replying to: boaz47 (Apr 20, 2008 12:30 pm) How does that work? Last year, there were more than 70 million vehicles produced worldwide (and, to be technical, more than 50 million of them were cars). In that same year, the US bought just over 16 million light vehicles (just under 7.9 million cars). Even with fleets calculated into these figures, I can't see how there were only 12-14 million consumers buying cars in the world last year.
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Replying to: hudsonthedog (Apr 22, 2008 7:37 am)  Top 10 vehicles by sale 2006 1) Volkswagen: 3,111,855 2) Peugeot Citroen: 2,019,540 3) Ford: 1,623,532 4) General Motors: 1,585,022 5) Renault: 1,324,119 6) Fiat: 1,156,152 7) DaimlerChrysler: 922,461 8) Toyota: 896,831 9) BMW: 793,077 10) Nissan: 313,507 Total European sales 15,364,997 |
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Replying to: boaz47 (Apr 20, 2008 12:30 pm) Did I miss something? You do know there are still European cars sold here, right?
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However, to me, at least, I think the idea that every vehicle should be primarily performance designed isn't exactly realistic.. I do not recall anyone suggesting that "every vehicle be primarily performance designed". As I agree with you, they should not. However that is not to say that "some of the small cars" couldn't be performance oriented. After all, even a high performance oriented car like the Mini Cooper S still returns great fuel economy numbers. They consume far less fuel that your average Jumbo SUV, think Hummer H2, Escalade, Expedition, as well as the Jumbo Pickups. It's simply a matter of those of us enthusiasts, asking for what we want, that's all. After all, this is America, where it's about freedom, choices, and free enterprise. The more offerings the more revenue and taxes generated. Cheers..... 
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Apr 21, 2008 6:25 pm) Where as in every other civilized nation, people don't live 2 hours from where they work so in 20 minutes they would be there. I have been to some of those very places you may be thinking of. And living on top of each other is hardly what I consider civilized. Ever been shoved into a underground train in Japan? At least in London you get to sit down on the underground most of the time. Whatever our short comings more people want to move here than want to move to China or any where else as far as I know. So if we are stupid then there are a lot of people that wish to be just as stupid as we are. Oh man what a loaded question. And if we are as stupid as some suggest where would you rather live and why?
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