You are here: Forums Automotive News & Views What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

8691 messages,  Last post on Dec 04, 2009 at 1:39 PM

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What is this discussion about? Nissan Versa, Toyota Yaris, Honda Fit, smart fortwo, MINI Cooper

#7495 of 8691 Re: an interesting [ateixeira] by thegraduate Apr 16, 2008 (11:32 am)
Replying to: ateixeira (Apr 15, 2008 8:48 am) Good point about Dodge - they replaced the SWB minivan with the Dodge crossover thingy, why do I always have trouble remembering the name?   Dodge Journey   Subcompacts anyone? Anyone?
#7496 of 8691 Re: an interesting [hudsonthedog] by ateixeira Apr 16, 2008 (12:59 pm)
Replying to: hudsonthedog (Apr 15, 2008 8:25 pm) That's just bizarre.   Sienna prices are about on par with last year. Ody prices are down.   I can't tell you why Ody sales are down and Sienna's are not. It should be the other way around. Replies to this message: nippononly (Apr 16, 2008 6:57 pm) beantown (Apr 18, 2008 10:50 am) andre1969 (Apr 18, 2008 11:02 am) podred (Apr 18, 2008 3:40 pm) ateixeira (Apr 18, 2008 11:11 am)
#7497 of 8691 Re: an interesting [ateixeira] by nippononly Apr 16, 2008 (6:57 pm)
Replying to: ateixeira (Apr 16, 2008 12:59 pm) Fit sales are up 50% over last year at this time.   Yaris sales are more than TWICE what Toyota forecast when it introduced that model.
#7498 of 8691 The best by guss Apr 17, 2008 (3:39 am)
thing about all of these new sub compacts coming out is that the price of a new car is getting to where It is almost reasonable. The Toyota dealers are all advertising Yaris for $12,095. I assume the Fit is maybe $1k more and an Aveo maybe $1k less. I am almost a strickly used car buyer but the sub compact pricing is making me take a look at a new car for myself (wife always gets new) the first time in 25 years.   I think I will wait until next year when the Ford Fiesta comes over. If it stays true to the pictures I have seen and the price is in the ball park of the other sub-compacts I think Ford may have a winner. I just have to make sure 3 kids fit in the back with reasonable comfort.
#7499 of 8691 Exciting cars..... what? by podred Apr 17, 2008 (10:27 am)
Never one to be a naysayer, and one that absolutely loves Ford of Europe vehicles, I too and taking a wait and see attitude. Frankly I will be very shocked if that terrific car is not ruined by the US division of Ford before it arrives here. So I know that sounds contrary to my opening statement , but sadly, that has been my experience with Ford in the US. Why oh Why do they refuse to bring over the simply wonderful cars? I've heard all the excuses (reasons, yeah right) and find them all fabricated. After all the UK has it's own set of very challenging standards that the auto makers must deal with, just like we do here, only different. But NOT different enough that they could not overcome them. After all why is it that we get nice Porsches, Ferraris, Aston Martins, Audis etc? And don't tell me it's about the price otherwise we would not have the very wonderful Mini Cooper S. If BMW can give us the Mini, Ford can give us a few of their very outstanding models designed by Ford of Europe!   That said I do have an idea of what it is, and I hate to admit it but I believe that the "average" buyer of cars in that segment in the US could care less about the car. They are buying price, cup holders, colors, and related nonsense. Wow! Look at this car Linda, it has 10 cup holders.......sold.   How pathetic, true but pathetic. Replies to this message: mcmanus (Apr 19, 2008 2:53 am) lilengineerboy (Apr 19, 2008 4:55 am) british_rover (Apr 19, 2008 6:20 am) podred (Apr 19, 2008 3:24 pm) and 3 more... podred (Apr 19, 2008 3:03 pm) lilengineerboy (Apr 20, 2008 5:25 am) and 12 more...
#7500 of 8691 Re: an interesting [ateixeira] by beantown Apr 18, 2008 (10:50 am)
Replying to: ateixeira (Apr 16, 2008 12:59 pm) I can't tell you why Ody sales are down and Sienna's are not. It should be the other way around.   Why? Price? People do base their purchases off of more than just price. Replies to this message: andre1969 (Apr 18, 2008 11:02 am) podred (Apr 18, 2008 3:40 pm) ateixeira (Apr 18, 2008 11:11 am)
#7501 of 8691 Re: an interesting [beantown] by andre1969 Apr 18, 2008 (11:02 am)
Replying to: beantown (Apr 18, 2008 10:50 am) Why? Price? People do base their purchases off of more than just price.   I've never been in the market for a minivan, so I couldn't tell you which one I think is better (although I think the Odyssey LOOKS better). But I think part of what's going on is that Toyota has gotten so big that they're sort of like how GM was back in the 60's and 70's. They could build something and people will buy it just based on name value, regardless of how good it really is. Now I'm not saying Honda is a loser name, not by a long shot. But I think Toyota's name value might be a bit stronger these days. Replies to this message: podred (Apr 18, 2008 3:40 pm)
#7502 of 8691 Re: an interesting [beantown] by ateixeira Apr 18, 2008 (11:11 am)
Replying to: beantown (Apr 18, 2008 10:50 am) Of course that's not the only thing, but Ody prices are nearly $2 grand lower than they were in May of 2007 (that's when I was getting price quotes). That is a significant difference.   Meanwhile the 2008 model actually got some improvements.   I just don't see a reason for a drop in sales with the Ody, while the Sienna's sales are higher (flat pricing, no significant improvements for MY2008).
#7503 of 8691 Re: an interesting [andre1969] by podred Apr 18, 2008 (3:40 pm)
Replying to: andre1969 (Apr 18, 2008 11:02 am) Since I like both brands, and do a lot of business with both my local Toyota & Honda dealers I decided to go in and drive each of these minivans. I have never had a need for a minivan, therefore I've driven nearly every Honda & Toyota model except the vans.   Toyota: A very nice driving van. Great power, very refined in terms of the category known as NVH, noise, vibration, and harshness (ride quality). When I set aside my personal dislike for the styling of the Toyota, I found it more comfortable with the best ergonomics. In terms of ease of moving around inside without opening any doors (as though one is parked at a rest stop, it's raining and you don't want to get out) it's far superior to the Honda. The ride quality was controlled, not too soft, not to harsh. They have obviously spent a lot of time on this, as the wind noise is also down to nil. at freeway speeds.   Honda: I love the looks of this van, especially the subtle changes made for 2008. I also prefer the more sports oriented driving experience and the taught suspension. However that said, I believe it works against them as most soccer moms and non car enthusiast dads would find it too stiff, and the steering too responsive. You must drive this van (what a novel concept), as opposed to the Toyota which is clearly designed for the Americans (who as I like to say, are merely passengers that happen to be sitting in the drivers seat). A scary thought really, but one I witness everyday as I drive a lot and watch these so called "drivers" wander all over the road. They are so busy eating, drinking, talking on the cell phone and turning their heads to the right to maintain eye contact with the passenger they are speaking to while hurtling down the road, oblivious to the fact that they are behind the steering wheel.   Then much like another comment made here, I believe that Toyota has such a strong reputation and brand loyalty, that many people go with that.
#7504 of 8691 plus by nippononly Apr 18, 2008 (4:54 pm)
while YMMV, my experience has ALWAYS been that Toyota dealers are more willing to deal on price than Honda dealers. I recently got internet quotes from 3 dealers on a Fit Sport MT and none made an offer below MSRP. They called that a "discount", because they had them marked up $1-2K.   So Toyota dealers will deal more, and consequently Yaris and Sienna have more sales than Fit and Odyssey. And Fit and Odyssey will have better resale in 3 years and in 5......

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