You are here: Forums Automotive News & Views What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

8564 messages,  Last post on Oct 23, 2009 at 10:37 AM

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What is this discussion about? Nissan Versa, Toyota Yaris, Honda Fit, smart fortwo, MINI Cooper

#6528 of 8564 Re: I guess some people just have a better sense [Mr_Shiftright] by lilengineerboy Dec 07, 2007 (7:01 pm)
Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Dec 07, 2007 3:12 pm) Apparently beauty is not subjective. Scientific studies suggest that the human brain is programmed to prefer symmetry and certain ratios and proportions.   Very true. In fact, engineers are capitalizing on it. Del Coates - Industrial Designer   Del Coates You-Tube review of Ford 500   Yili Liu's Engineering Aesthetics   Its definitely a hot topic.
#6529 of 8564 grad... by iluvmysephia1 Dec 07, 2007 (8:01 pm)
you question the '08 Lancer's ability to age gracefully? As in, you don't have confidence in Mitsubishi engineering prowess?   Funny, I've had people I don't really know that well at work tell me that my Lancer will last forever. I agree, that sounds far-fetched, but these people looked me directly in the eye like they were happy to tell me that I've made a sound purchase that will last. A 10 year and 100,00 mile Warranty doesn't hurt, either.   I have read up on Mitsu's rally racing wins and racing design heritage and have come to respect the company a lot. Just basing a decision on them having a hard time because a bunch of American dorks defaulted on their 0-0-0 Mitsubishi loans doesn't even start to cut it. I spent hundreds of hours researching this car company before I bought my Lancer GTS. I became more and more impressed instead of leery of them.   No, I can't tell you you must like my Lancer's body design, graduate. I can tell you that I love it and that I have learned in the car world that people don't give too many quarters when good quarter is due. I don't question Honda and Toyota engineering ability and benchmarking. But for me to buy one of their rigs(excepting Scion, I almost bought a Polar White 2006 Scion xA in 5-speeds and foglights, i-Pod, etc.)it would require me to turn off my love of automotive design eyes. I can't do that.   shifty and engineerboy have shed some more light on that particular subject and I must learn more about that. As soon as I see if the Sonics can dispatch of the Bucks on NBA League Pass. Gotta properly juggle these enjoyments! Replies to this message: thegraduate (Dec 07, 2007 8:17 pm) lilengineerboy (Dec 08, 2007 4:46 am) tiff_c (Dec 07, 2007 9:01 pm) andeet (Dec 08, 2007 4:52 am) lilengineerboy (Dec 08, 2007 6:53 am) and 2 more... tiff_c (Dec 08, 2007 1:28 pm)
#6530 of 8564 Re: grad... [iluvmysephia1] by thegraduate Dec 07, 2007 (8:17 pm)
Replying to: iluvmysephia1 (Dec 07, 2007 8:01 pm) you question the '08 Lancer's ability to age gracefully? As in, you don't have confidence in Mitsubishi engineering prowess?   Nope, not that's not what I said (or meant) at all.   I'm sorry you wrote an entire post based on a wrong assupmtion, but I mean in the sense that the Lancer's styling is very up-to date, but so heavily "STYLED" that I'm afraid it will look dated in 10 years. I like it today, but will I feel about the Lancer in 2018 the way I feel about the Chrysler Concorde, Oldsmobile Aurora, or any Pontiac? None of these three cars were bad looking in their time (in fact, all were good looking to me), but they look pretty dated to me these days. The Lancer looks great now, but in ten years I wonder if it'll look silly, or still look "current."   Not that it matters a great deal, but since we were on the subject of designs, I figured I'd bring it up. You got my post misconstrued however, I haven't questioned Mitsu's reliability in the least (I don't have enough experience with them to have formed an opinion). Replies to this message: lilengineerboy (Dec 08, 2007 4:46 am)
#6531 of 8564 Re: I guess some people just have a better sense [iluvmysephia1] by tiff_c Dec 07, 2007 (8:49 pm)
Replying to: iluvmysephia1 (Dec 07, 2007 2:59 pm) of styling. To give this blank statement reason like "Oh, but styling is so subjective" just flat out stinks of jealousy and contempt. And that is just what it is. Anyone who gives the Mitsubishi Lancer GTS for 2008 a good, thorough look knows what I'm talking about.   No doubt the Lancer GTS looks very nice and the EVO X hands down is a great looking car. The GTS really needs an extra 20HP for me to consider it. The lowly base 2.5i AWD Impreza has 170HP and 170TQ. Of course it's a slug due to AWD drivetrain loss but in the GTS it'd be a rocket. I drive a LOT of highway and for me I need to to cruise well and be peppy in the city. mitsubishi agrees which is why they are upgrading the engine to get more sales from buyers who want a bit more performance. The new STI looks pretty good to me. The WRX is an example of what a car should Not be.
#6532 of 8564 Re: grad... [iluvmysephia1] by tiff_c Dec 07, 2007 (9:01 pm)
Replying to: iluvmysephia1 (Dec 07, 2007 8:01 pm) you question the '08 Lancer's ability to age gracefully? As in, you don't have confidence in Mitsubishi engineering prowess?   I think he means the looks will look outdated in say 10 years. The quirky or oddball stuff or cute stuff can just lose it after a while like the PT Cruiser or the new Beetle. So far the new MINI is going strong but in another 10 years? Some cars just have the lines to stand the test of time like the older corvettes the '53 Vette fro example. There is no way to predict what will be the most awesome desirable design 20+ years from now. If you could lots of Classic cars would have been bought up when they were $500. Don't worry about it. You like your Lancer, it makes you happy to drive it and that's all that matters. Replies to this message: andeet (Dec 08, 2007 4:52 am) lilengineerboy (Dec 08, 2007 6:53 am) andeet (Dec 09, 2007 6:30 am) and 1 more... tiff_c (Dec 08, 2007 1:28 pm)
#6533 of 8564 Re: grad... [thegraduate] by lilengineerboy Dec 08, 2007 (4:46 am)
Replying to: thegraduate (Dec 07, 2007 8:17 pm) That made me think of cars that did age gracefully from a styling standpoint. I think the 90-93 Accord always looked nice, but the 90-96 Nissan 300ZX was a beautiful car that still looked beautiful 10 or 15 years later. I think the Toyota MR2 (90-94) was also in that category - which probably had a lot to do with that proportioning issue. I do agree that beautify is in the eye of the beholder, as one of my favorite cars of all time is the Audi Quattro, and that car is so very 80s looking its not even funny.
#6534 of 8564 Re: grad... [tiff_c] by andeet Dec 08, 2007 (4:52 am)
Replying to: tiff_c (Dec 07, 2007 9:01 pm) As ex '06 Scion xA owner..I was getting 39-40 mpg. I was driving close to 45 miles one way to work and I only had to fill up once week. It was good little car but being young...I wanted something more better & something more youthful so I went with a '07 Scion tC. Now I fill up about twice or even three times driving around & commuting to work. Scion are just as good as Toyota's...I've done some stupid things with both cars and they seem they want to start up the next day. In fact this week, I accidently left on one of my dome lights on during work....I hit the keyless remote: car unlocked. Lights were still on. Went to start the car: Car started and ran for second then died. I was amazed that my battery wasn't totally dead.   My other siblings (which is quite funny: Our Dad likes only GM. But my oldest sister and my older brother likes only Mitsubishi's. While my second older sister and I likes our Toyota's.) My brother just got '08 Lancer. Nice car if you like the "fun stuff" (accessories,) 1.5 liter engine stinks (Remember I'm used to my 2.4 161hp VVT-i), 18in alloys stink in the winter (he had very scary spin in the car's first snow storm), his front hood has rock chip that already is rusting? My tC is pushing 62k miles and I have some rock chips but they yet to become rust like his. I heard from Scion fan sites that Mitsu's are famous for terrible paint.   Sorry Mitsubisi owners (I used to own '00 Galant)...I guess Toyota made me into Toyota Buyer Monster Replies to this message: lilengineerboy (Dec 08, 2007 6:53 am) andeet (Dec 09, 2007 6:30 am) lilengineerboy (Dec 09, 2007 7:56 am) tiff_c (Dec 08, 2007 1:28 pm)
#6535 of 8564 Re: grad... [andeet] by lilengineerboy Dec 08, 2007 (6:53 am)
Replying to: andeet (Dec 08, 2007 4:52 am) In fact this week, I accidentally left on one of my dome lights on during work....I hit the keyless remote: car unlocked. Lights were still on. Went to start the car: Car started and ran for second then died. I was amazed that my battery wasn't totally dead.   So you left a 8w bulb on for 8 hrs and it did or did not kill the car? That has much more to do with the age of the battery than anything to do with the car at all, and it sounds like it still died?   My brother just got '08 Lancer. Nice car if you like the "fun stuff" (accessories,) 1.5 liter engine stinks (Remember I'm used to my 2.4 161hp VVT-i),   I thought you had to get the 2.0l 150 hp Lancer GTS to get the 18" wheels. Anyway, I am impressed you could notice the 2 tenths of a second difference from 0-60. I was wondering if you also noticed the Scions' 60' additional stopping distance, or the lower skidpad and cornering numbers.   Also, if you are into sporty looking coupes, perhaps it would be better to compare the Eclipse as opposed to sedan.   I think while the Mitsu and Scion are both trying to look sporty, the Civic actually is somewhat sporty.   I heard from Scion fan sites that Mitsu's are famous for terrible paint.    Makes you wonder what they say about the Scion on the Mitsu sites, no?   Sorry Mitsubisi owners (I used to own '00 Galant).   My '89 Mitsubishi Galant(car of the year at the time) was around the 180 or 190k mark when I got the '96 Contour SE MTX in '98. The biggest repair it had was a clutch replacement for $450. And that old Galant gave 2k towards the Contour's 10k price. Replies to this message: andeet (Dec 09, 2007 6:30 am) lilengineerboy (Dec 09, 2007 7:56 am)
#6536 of 8564 Re: Those are a lot of straws to be grasping at. [Mr_Shiftright] by snakeweasel Dec 08, 2007 (7:56 am)
Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Dec 07, 2007 5:30 pm) I didn't see any link to report fuel mileage to the EPA on their site.   Its a link on the main page titled something like "see MPG from drivers like you"   If you price out both of them with comparable equipment, that is base Smart with AC & power steering, vs. Base Fit with those items standard, I regret to say that the Honda comes out to be $128 more,   The base Smart with radio, A/C and power steering comes in at around a grand less than the fit and it has stability control and traction control which I believe the standard Fit does not have.   Seems for a second commuter car the Smart would be a better car than a Fit. Replies to this message: Mr_Shiftright (Dec 08, 2007 8:15 am) snakeweasel (Dec 08, 2007 8:29 am) Mr_Shiftright (Dec 08, 2007 8:43 am) and 2 more...
#6537 of 8564 Brand loyality by boaz47 Dec 08, 2007 (8:11 am)
Is a strange thing. It reminds me of people that are into sports. I see the reasoning but for the most part it has never caught me. I do have prejudices however I know. I have never forgiven VW for the three examples they produced and I happened to buy. It may not have been the cars themselves as much as their sales and service but they have more than likely lost me forever. And sales and service is about people more than about the machine or product.   Still getting back on track we can see that there is no universal consensus as to the correct size vehicle. Most consumers prefer something in the Accord Camry size and that is unlikely to change over the next ten years. I am sure as a society we will prefer that they work harder on improving the fuel mileage to our favorite sized vehicles to us switching to smaller less comfortable vehicles. Yes, sub compacts may be practical and the Smart may even be practical to some but US consumers are more interested in comfort, and a bit more power. That is why the xD has more power than the xA and the xB got more power as well. Us consumers also like their SUVs and trucks and that isn't likely to change either. Trucks and SUVs may have to change but they have changed some already. For the last few years trucks have simply been getting bigger it may be time they got smaller as SUVs seem to be getting. But that is a far cry from switching to sub compacts.

You are here: Forums Automotive News & Views What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?