You are here: Forums Automotive News & Views What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

8684 messages,  Last post on Dec 03, 2009 at 9:12 PM

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What is this discussion about? Nissan Versa, Toyota Yaris, Honda Fit, smart fortwo, MINI Cooper

#6522 of 8684 Re: Those are a lot of straws to be grasping at. [Mr_Shiftright] by snakeweasel Dec 07, 2007 (3:39 pm)
Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Dec 07, 2007 3:25 pm) That's not what I'm reading though, interestingly enough. It's exactly the opposite.   Well then we are reading different things because the EPA website has, IIRC, 52 people reporting and something like two or three reporting way higher than the EPA estiments. Replies to this message: Mr_Shiftright (Dec 07, 2007 5:30 pm) snakeweasel (Dec 08, 2007 7:56 am) Mr_Shiftright (Dec 08, 2007 8:15 am) and 4 more...
#6523 of 8684 the great debate by oregonboy Dec 07, 2007 (3:57 pm)
After crushing all opposition with incisive logic and irrefutable reasoning, he turned slowly to savor the victory. Only the did he realize that he was alone in the room.
#6524 of 8684 Re: Those are a lot of straws to be grasping at. [snakeweasel] by robertsmx Dec 07, 2007 (5:15 pm)
Replying to: snakeweasel (Dec 07, 2007 3:25 pm) the Smart will be less expensive and lets face it, if people are practical when choosing that second commuter car they will choose the less expensive better mileage car.   Practical people look for balance. And that also involves practicality. My second car doesn't need to be large, it needs to be practical enough that if I need it as a replacement for my primary car, I could use it.   Something like Smart wouldn't even register on my radar for a second car, not at $13K and 40 mpg. There are far superior choices out there. I would rather go used if money were an issue.   Because EPA estiments are the closest thing you can get as a constant for this measurement.   A constant that is overly pessimistic. A constant that always gets beat. If there weren't an issue with this constant, EPA wouldn't dump the old constant and come up with a new one. And my cars have always met (or exceeded) the old constant. The new constant has done nothing but create a chaos. In fact, it has done greater harm to higher mileage cars than lower. A 10-12% reduction on 40 mpg vehicle is far more "visible" than similar loss in a 15 mpg vehicle.   You driving your Accord and getting X MPG doesn't mean I will get X MPG on an Accord that has the same options.   If you look at the way I drive, you would think otherwise but you will. Most do.   Well then we are reading different things because the EPA website has, IIRC, 52 people reporting and something like two or three reporting way higher than the EPA estiments.   Looking at mileage reported on 2007 Yaris w/auto transmission I see 53 entries, and only six failed to meet the combined mileage which is only 31 mpg. Most folks seem to be averaging in mid-upper 30s, especially considering those that are close to approximately 50-50 city/highway (+/- 10%). Replies to this message: dromedarius (Dec 08, 2007 10:32 pm) boaz47 (Dec 08, 2007 11:14 pm) dromedarius (Dec 09, 2007 7:45 am) and 7 more... snakeweasel (Dec 09, 2007 7:54 am) ateixeira (Dec 10, 2007 3:42 pm)
#6525 of 8684 Re: Those are a lot of straws to be grasping at. [snakeweasel] by Mr_Shiftright HOST Dec 07, 2007 (5:30 pm)
Replying to: snakeweasel (Dec 07, 2007 3:39 pm) Oh I'm sorry. I forgot to mention that I was looking at the edmunds.com, consumer reviews for the Yaris, not the EPA site. I didn't see any link to report fuel mileage to the EPA on their site.   SMART VS. FIT: If you price out both of them with comparable equipment, that is base Smart with AC & power steering, vs. Base Fit with those items standard, I regret to say that the Honda comes out to be $128 more, with more standard features than the base Smart has.   That even surprised me. I didn't do that before.   Try it yourselves: Go to www.edmunds.com, click on "new cars" and price out the 2008s, as base models. Replies to this message: snakeweasel (Dec 08, 2007 7:56 am) Mr_Shiftright (Dec 08, 2007 8:15 am) snakeweasel (Dec 08, 2007 8:29 am) and 3 more...
#6526 of 8684 Good find, shifty... by iluvmysephia1 Dec 07, 2007 (5:56 pm)
Apparently beauty is not subjective. Scientific studies suggest that the human brain is programmed to prefer symmetry and certain ratios and proportions.   Now, since I am the only one who decided that I like the symmetry and certain ratios and proportions of my '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS, I have no other compelling reason to tell anyone else they must feel the same way about the car. But, I was programmed to like it and I just acted on...on...ummm...superior pre-programmed powers of being prone to crave beauty.   There. That does it. I felt this strange pull within me to get that out. Nice find, shifty, makes lots of good sense to me. Replies to this message: thegraduate (Dec 07, 2007 6:56 pm)
#6527 of 8684 Re: Good find, shifty... [iluvmysephia1] by thegraduate Dec 07, 2007 (6:56 pm)
Replying to: iluvmysephia1 (Dec 07, 2007 5:56 pm) I have no problem with the styling on a car, but simply saying one design is superior to another (when, in fact, the design is just made to be appealing to the eye and not to promote function) is subjective, because of the fact that my reason for liking a car may be your reason for disliking it (People say this about the Fusion's grill). So, I won't argue with you or shifty on styling, but I disagree with the fact that it is objective and do believe that it is subjective.   You like it. That's the important part. Just don't criticize others who don't, or those who don't give a rip about what it looks like as that would make as much sense as not liking somebody because of their birth date. Personally, I like the Lancer's exterior design for the most part. I do question its ability to age gracefully though.
#6528 of 8684 Re: I guess some people just have a better sense [Mr_Shiftright] by lilengineerboy Dec 07, 2007 (7:01 pm)
Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Dec 07, 2007 3:12 pm) Apparently beauty is not subjective. Scientific studies suggest that the human brain is programmed to prefer symmetry and certain ratios and proportions.   Very true. In fact, engineers are capitalizing on it. Del Coates - Industrial Designer   Del Coates You-Tube review of Ford 500   Yili Liu's Engineering Aesthetics   Its definitely a hot topic.
#6529 of 8684 grad... by iluvmysephia1 Dec 07, 2007 (8:01 pm)
you question the '08 Lancer's ability to age gracefully? As in, you don't have confidence in Mitsubishi engineering prowess?   Funny, I've had people I don't really know that well at work tell me that my Lancer will last forever. I agree, that sounds far-fetched, but these people looked me directly in the eye like they were happy to tell me that I've made a sound purchase that will last. A 10 year and 100,00 mile Warranty doesn't hurt, either.   I have read up on Mitsu's rally racing wins and racing design heritage and have come to respect the company a lot. Just basing a decision on them having a hard time because a bunch of American dorks defaulted on their 0-0-0 Mitsubishi loans doesn't even start to cut it. I spent hundreds of hours researching this car company before I bought my Lancer GTS. I became more and more impressed instead of leery of them.   No, I can't tell you you must like my Lancer's body design, graduate. I can tell you that I love it and that I have learned in the car world that people don't give too many quarters when good quarter is due. I don't question Honda and Toyota engineering ability and benchmarking. But for me to buy one of their rigs(excepting Scion, I almost bought a Polar White 2006 Scion xA in 5-speeds and foglights, i-Pod, etc.)it would require me to turn off my love of automotive design eyes. I can't do that.   shifty and engineerboy have shed some more light on that particular subject and I must learn more about that. As soon as I see if the Sonics can dispatch of the Bucks on NBA League Pass. Gotta properly juggle these enjoyments! Replies to this message: thegraduate (Dec 07, 2007 8:17 pm) lilengineerboy (Dec 08, 2007 4:46 am) tiff_c (Dec 07, 2007 9:01 pm) andeet (Dec 08, 2007 4:52 am) lilengineerboy (Dec 08, 2007 6:53 am) and 2 more... tiff_c (Dec 08, 2007 1:28 pm)
#6530 of 8684 Re: grad... [iluvmysephia1] by thegraduate Dec 07, 2007 (8:17 pm)
Replying to: iluvmysephia1 (Dec 07, 2007 8:01 pm) you question the '08 Lancer's ability to age gracefully? As in, you don't have confidence in Mitsubishi engineering prowess?   Nope, not that's not what I said (or meant) at all.   I'm sorry you wrote an entire post based on a wrong assupmtion, but I mean in the sense that the Lancer's styling is very up-to date, but so heavily "STYLED" that I'm afraid it will look dated in 10 years. I like it today, but will I feel about the Lancer in 2018 the way I feel about the Chrysler Concorde, Oldsmobile Aurora, or any Pontiac? None of these three cars were bad looking in their time (in fact, all were good looking to me), but they look pretty dated to me these days. The Lancer looks great now, but in ten years I wonder if it'll look silly, or still look "current."   Not that it matters a great deal, but since we were on the subject of designs, I figured I'd bring it up. You got my post misconstrued however, I haven't questioned Mitsu's reliability in the least (I don't have enough experience with them to have formed an opinion). Replies to this message: lilengineerboy (Dec 08, 2007 4:46 am)
#6531 of 8684 Re: I guess some people just have a better sense [iluvmysephia1] by tiff_c Dec 07, 2007 (8:49 pm)
Replying to: iluvmysephia1 (Dec 07, 2007 2:59 pm) of styling. To give this blank statement reason like "Oh, but styling is so subjective" just flat out stinks of jealousy and contempt. And that is just what it is. Anyone who gives the Mitsubishi Lancer GTS for 2008 a good, thorough look knows what I'm talking about.   No doubt the Lancer GTS looks very nice and the EVO X hands down is a great looking car. The GTS really needs an extra 20HP for me to consider it. The lowly base 2.5i AWD Impreza has 170HP and 170TQ. Of course it's a slug due to AWD drivetrain loss but in the GTS it'd be a rocket. I drive a LOT of highway and for me I need to to cruise well and be peppy in the city. mitsubishi agrees which is why they are upgrading the engine to get more sales from buyers who want a bit more performance. The new STI looks pretty good to me. The WRX is an example of what a car should Not be.

You are here: Forums Automotive News & Views What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?