You are here: Forums Automotive News & Views What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

8691 messages,  Last post on Dec 04, 2009 at 1:39 PM

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What is this discussion about? Nissan Versa, Toyota Yaris, Honda Fit, smart fortwo, MINI Cooper

#6520 of 8691 Re: The fact is that I bought the car [ateixeira] by snakeweasel Dec 07, 2007 (3:32 pm)
Replying to: ateixeira (Dec 07, 2007 1:36 pm) Here at work, we found out if you call the health folks you can get one of those bad boys for free (they pay). The next day a bunch of us called complaining about sore backs!   Ha. I work for the state and I feel lucky that I have a chair and not an old milk crate. Now if I can only get them to stop using my work space for storage I will be happy.
#6521 of 8691 Re: Interesting Discussion! [Mr_Shiftright] by snakeweasel Dec 07, 2007 (3:37 pm)
Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Dec 07, 2007 3:15 pm) So why wouldn't the Honda Fit be the perfect car for that family?   Remember that we are talking two car families where one car always (or mostly) has one person in it for the commute. The Fit would be ok, but do you really need to spend more money and get less mileage for added space you will never need?   I think if you put a SMART and a Fit side by side with gas mileages taped to their windows, for the same price, and asked small families to choose, I think the Smart would lose 9 out of 10 times.   But the Smart will be less expensive and lets face it, if people are practical when choosing that second commuter car they will choose the less expensive better mileage car.
#6522 of 8691 Re: Those are a lot of straws to be grasping at. [Mr_Shiftright] by snakeweasel Dec 07, 2007 (3:39 pm)
Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Dec 07, 2007 3:25 pm) That's not what I'm reading though, interestingly enough. It's exactly the opposite.   Well then we are reading different things because the EPA website has, IIRC, 52 people reporting and something like two or three reporting way higher than the EPA estiments. Replies to this message: Mr_Shiftright (Dec 07, 2007 5:30 pm) snakeweasel (Dec 08, 2007 7:56 am) Mr_Shiftright (Dec 08, 2007 8:15 am) and 4 more...
#6523 of 8691 the great debate by oregonboy Dec 07, 2007 (3:57 pm)
After crushing all opposition with incisive logic and irrefutable reasoning, he turned slowly to savor the victory. Only the did he realize that he was alone in the room.
#6524 of 8691 Re: Those are a lot of straws to be grasping at. [snakeweasel] by robertsmx Dec 07, 2007 (5:15 pm)
Replying to: snakeweasel (Dec 07, 2007 3:25 pm) the Smart will be less expensive and lets face it, if people are practical when choosing that second commuter car they will choose the less expensive better mileage car.   Practical people look for balance. And that also involves practicality. My second car doesn't need to be large, it needs to be practical enough that if I need it as a replacement for my primary car, I could use it.   Something like Smart wouldn't even register on my radar for a second car, not at $13K and 40 mpg. There are far superior choices out there. I would rather go used if money were an issue.   Because EPA estiments are the closest thing you can get as a constant for this measurement.   A constant that is overly pessimistic. A constant that always gets beat. If there weren't an issue with this constant, EPA wouldn't dump the old constant and come up with a new one. And my cars have always met (or exceeded) the old constant. The new constant has done nothing but create a chaos. In fact, it has done greater harm to higher mileage cars than lower. A 10-12% reduction on 40 mpg vehicle is far more "visible" than similar loss in a 15 mpg vehicle.   You driving your Accord and getting X MPG doesn't mean I will get X MPG on an Accord that has the same options.   If you look at the way I drive, you would think otherwise but you will. Most do.   Well then we are reading different things because the EPA website has, IIRC, 52 people reporting and something like two or three reporting way higher than the EPA estiments.   Looking at mileage reported on 2007 Yaris w/auto transmission I see 53 entries, and only six failed to meet the combined mileage which is only 31 mpg. Most folks seem to be averaging in mid-upper 30s, especially considering those that are close to approximately 50-50 city/highway (+/- 10%). Replies to this message: dromedarius (Dec 08, 2007 10:32 pm) boaz47 (Dec 08, 2007 11:14 pm) dromedarius (Dec 09, 2007 7:45 am) and 7 more... snakeweasel (Dec 09, 2007 7:54 am) ateixeira (Dec 10, 2007 3:42 pm)
#6525 of 8691 Re: Those are a lot of straws to be grasping at. [snakeweasel] by Mr_Shiftright HOST Dec 07, 2007 (5:30 pm)
Replying to: snakeweasel (Dec 07, 2007 3:39 pm) Oh I'm sorry. I forgot to mention that I was looking at the edmunds.com, consumer reviews for the Yaris, not the EPA site. I didn't see any link to report fuel mileage to the EPA on their site.   SMART VS. FIT: If you price out both of them with comparable equipment, that is base Smart with AC & power steering, vs. Base Fit with those items standard, I regret to say that the Honda comes out to be $128 more, with more standard features than the base Smart has.   That even surprised me. I didn't do that before.   Try it yourselves: Go to www.edmunds.com, click on "new cars" and price out the 2008s, as base models. Replies to this message: snakeweasel (Dec 08, 2007 7:56 am) Mr_Shiftright (Dec 08, 2007 8:15 am) snakeweasel (Dec 08, 2007 8:29 am) and 3 more...
#6526 of 8691 Good find, shifty... by iluvmysephia1 Dec 07, 2007 (5:56 pm)
Apparently beauty is not subjective. Scientific studies suggest that the human brain is programmed to prefer symmetry and certain ratios and proportions.   Now, since I am the only one who decided that I like the symmetry and certain ratios and proportions of my '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS, I have no other compelling reason to tell anyone else they must feel the same way about the car. But, I was programmed to like it and I just acted on...on...ummm...superior pre-programmed powers of being prone to crave beauty.   There. That does it. I felt this strange pull within me to get that out. Nice find, shifty, makes lots of good sense to me. Replies to this message: thegraduate (Dec 07, 2007 6:56 pm)
#6527 of 8691 Re: Good find, shifty... [iluvmysephia1] by thegraduate Dec 07, 2007 (6:56 pm)
Replying to: iluvmysephia1 (Dec 07, 2007 5:56 pm) I have no problem with the styling on a car, but simply saying one design is superior to another (when, in fact, the design is just made to be appealing to the eye and not to promote function) is subjective, because of the fact that my reason for liking a car may be your reason for disliking it (People say this about the Fusion's grill). So, I won't argue with you or shifty on styling, but I disagree with the fact that it is objective and do believe that it is subjective.   You like it. That's the important part. Just don't criticize others who don't, or those who don't give a rip about what it looks like as that would make as much sense as not liking somebody because of their birth date. Personally, I like the Lancer's exterior design for the most part. I do question its ability to age gracefully though.
#6528 of 8691 Re: I guess some people just have a better sense [Mr_Shiftright] by lilengineerboy Dec 07, 2007 (7:01 pm)
Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Dec 07, 2007 3:12 pm) Apparently beauty is not subjective. Scientific studies suggest that the human brain is programmed to prefer symmetry and certain ratios and proportions.   Very true. In fact, engineers are capitalizing on it. Del Coates - Industrial Designer   Del Coates You-Tube review of Ford 500   Yili Liu's Engineering Aesthetics   Its definitely a hot topic.
#6529 of 8691 grad... by iluvmysephia1 Dec 07, 2007 (8:01 pm)
you question the '08 Lancer's ability to age gracefully? As in, you don't have confidence in Mitsubishi engineering prowess?   Funny, I've had people I don't really know that well at work tell me that my Lancer will last forever. I agree, that sounds far-fetched, but these people looked me directly in the eye like they were happy to tell me that I've made a sound purchase that will last. A 10 year and 100,00 mile Warranty doesn't hurt, either.   I have read up on Mitsu's rally racing wins and racing design heritage and have come to respect the company a lot. Just basing a decision on them having a hard time because a bunch of American dorks defaulted on their 0-0-0 Mitsubishi loans doesn't even start to cut it. I spent hundreds of hours researching this car company before I bought my Lancer GTS. I became more and more impressed instead of leery of them.   No, I can't tell you you must like my Lancer's body design, graduate. I can tell you that I love it and that I have learned in the car world that people don't give too many quarters when good quarter is due. I don't question Honda and Toyota engineering ability and benchmarking. But for me to buy one of their rigs(excepting Scion, I almost bought a Polar White 2006 Scion xA in 5-speeds and foglights, i-Pod, etc.)it would require me to turn off my love of automotive design eyes. I can't do that.   shifty and engineerboy have shed some more light on that particular subject and I must learn more about that. As soon as I see if the Sonics can dispatch of the Bucks on NBA League Pass. Gotta properly juggle these enjoyments! Replies to this message: thegraduate (Dec 07, 2007 8:17 pm) lilengineerboy (Dec 08, 2007 4:46 am) tiff_c (Dec 07, 2007 9:01 pm) andeet (Dec 08, 2007 4:52 am) lilengineerboy (Dec 08, 2007 6:53 am) and 2 more... tiff_c (Dec 08, 2007 1:28 pm)

You are here: Forums Automotive News & Views What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?