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Automotive News & Views What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?
8691 messages, Last post on Dec 04, 2009 at 1:39 PM
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Replying to: john500 (Dec 07, 2007 10:13 am) My driving conditions is approximately 50-50. On highway, I will drive between 60-80 mph, but mostly around 70-72 mph. This is an old car (1998, 184K miles). This is the same car that has returned 32+ mpg on long (500+ mile) road trips with speeds averaging over 75 mph (and thats average, including time spent at stop(s)). EPA tells me this car should get 27 mpg highway, 21 mpg in city. Tell me, what makes their number more credible, and why I shouldn't rely on what I observe. My numbers are consistent with numbers being quoted by others. Yet, I must believe they are liars (and so am I)? Gas/tank expansion/contraction theory is fine, but those differences are minimal enough to even worry about on this scale. And that car isn't the only one. I have another that makes me call the new EPA rating system a joke.
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I have that is a compact car, get 32 mpg highway(like I do) and 20 mpg in town (like I do) why would I want a subcompact car? If I liked the design of a subcompact car I would buy one but so far I don't see a car design I like more than the '08 Mitsu Lancer GTS compact. And parking in my little town and even Tucson and Safford and Sierra Vista for shopping is laid-back southern Arizona, not up-tight Philadelphia, Chicago or New York City type of parking. So parking is not an issue. Mpg with subcompacts is currently not good enough. For my next car I am going to look at all the electrics available at that time (probably around the year 2012 or 2013 at the rate I'm putting mileage on my Lancer GTS) and pick one that I like. By then hopefully the range of travel with one charge-up will improve significantly, manufacturer's will increase the max.speed one can go in an all-electric vehicle, the initial cost to buy the vehicle will drop with good sound technology and mass-production, and the whole issue of re-charging these EV's will have been figured out and implemented by then. If I'm gonna buy a small ICE vehicle then the car should get a minimum of 40 mpg and hopefully 45-50 mpg, and up. Otherwise I will enjoy my '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS and it's better carrying capability than a subcompact and similar gas mileage to one. It's good to have a little more room to store things and seat more people comfortably for excursions, etc.
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Replying to: iluvmysephia1 (Dec 07, 2007 11:51 am) By that logic, if I can get a Honda Accord that delivers upper 30s on the highway regularly (topped 40 MPG twice at speeds averaging over 70 MPH), 29MPG in my suburban commute, and has better fuel economy than a compact according to the EPA (Lancer), why would I want a compact? If I'm gonna buy a small ICE vehicle then the car should get a minimum of 40 mpg and hopefully 45-50 mpg, and up. Otherwise I will enjoy my '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS and it's better carrying capability than a subcompact and similar gas mileage to one. It's good to have a little more room to store things and seat more people comfortably for excursions, etc. My same case holds true of my Accord against a Lancer. It's roomier and gets better milage. Why would I move to a smaller and LESS efficient car. At least with going to subcompacts, the mileage is better, if marginally (Fit v. Civic, Yaris v. Corolla, Versa v. Sentra). Go sit in a Versa; it's decidedly NOT a subcompact. I sat in the back seat, behind where I'd set the seat in the front. I had as much room as my midsize Accord. Cars like this Versa, and the cargo-carrying marvel Honda Fit are really practical vehicles; much more so than their sedan big-brother compacts in some cases. The thing is, sephia, that these subcompacts typically have combined averages higher than those of compacts. They also are smaller on the outside (a plus for some people), and don't cost as much to purchase. I find it sort of interesting that you seem cocerned about mileage, yet bought one of the least efficient compacts currently on sale.
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I bought for it's looks and for it's handling and features available for the price. Plus a Warranty that is industry-leading(until Chrysler came out with theirs). Gas mileage is not even near the top of my list for why I want to buy a car. Since so namy disscussions on car sites involve gas mileage, I was simply pointing out the fact that many, many subcompacts just don't deliver in the mpg area compared to even my '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS, which is a compact. And I get more room to travel in. More comfort. And a great looking car body design as well, which is not easily delivered in a car with such a small body. Not to mention the increased safety of a bigger rig that also has the latest safety implements designed in. Just a better deal all the way around.
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Replying to: thegraduate (Dec 07, 2007 12:02 pm) Well basically, buy what you're comfortable with. If you're getting that kind of economy in an Accord, it's doubtful you'll do much better with a smaller car (MPG-wise yes, but $ wise, probably not, unless you drive an incredible amount of miles). Still, there are tradeoffs. The Accord is bigger, roomier, more comfortable. Probably quieter and smoother riding. The Lancer might be more nimble, easier to park in tight spaces, give a more connected driving experience, etc. I've sort of run into a similar situation with my cars. My 2000 Intrepid a "fullsize" (according to the EPA at least...I'm still a bit old fashioned and call it a roomy intermediate  ) can break 30 mpg if leisurely driven on the highway. Best I ever did was around 31. I've driven my uncle's '03 Corolla a few times, and one time keeping track of mileage I got around 37.4, driven fairly leisurely, highway driving...actually, the same run where I got 31 with the Intrepid! The up-side of the Corolla was the 20% improvement in fuel economy. Sounds impressive, doesn't it? However, on that 230 mile trip I took, that translates to a gallonage of 6.15 for the Corolla, 7.42 for the Intrepid. A difference of 1.27 gallons. At $3.00 per gallon, that comes out to a savings of like $3.81 over the course of that trip. All of a sudden, not so great. Now, if the Corolla is your thing, more power to you. However, I find it cramped, noisy, rough riding, uncomfortable, worse-handling, and slower-accelerating than my Intrepid. I also rarely have to worry about squeezing into tight parking spaces, so that advantage is pretty much a moot point for me. I'm used to driving pickup trucks and 221" long Chryslers, so to me the Intrepid IS a small, nimble car!  However, to someone else, who doesn't really need something Intrepid-sized, and is comfortable with the Corolla, then they should go for it. It's a perfectly adequate car, but it just doesn't fit ME. So in short, buy what fits you the best, and what you're most comfortable with. If I had to go out and buy a new car right now, I'd probably get a 4-cyl Altima. It's smaller than my Intrepid, but still big enough to for me to fit in comfortably. According to the EPA, it should get better fuel economy. Basically, it's not too big, not too small, fairly economical, and fast enough for my needs.
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Replying to: iluvmysephia1 (Dec 07, 2007 12:12 pm) Who is to say that subcompact buyers don't do the same thing? Just because you like and dislike certain vehicle designs doesn't mean that other people don't feel the opposite. I couldn't put up with the interior quality of the Lancer, personally. That alone would cause me to look at other vehicles. The power/economy tradeoff was pretty bad in a brand new model as well. My point that I'm trying to make, in a roundabout fashion, is this. The reasons you have for choosing a larger/different car may be just the reasons other people CHOOSE a compact. And, every subcompact I know delivers compared to the 21/29 MPG the Lancer is estimated to get in standardized conditions. Versa - 27/33 MPG, more room (EPA Midsize I believe), extra cargo capacity with hatchback option. Fit - 27/34, LOADS of cargo space with magic seats, GREAT handling Yaris - 29/35, the Yaris gets in city stop and go what the Lancer gets on the highway! You say the Lancer is a better deal all the way around... well, for YOU it is. You seem to be losing sight of the fact that we all have different needs. Some want great economy and loads of practicality. Some want midsize room and subcompact fuel economy. Some want the most fun-to-drive at the lowest cost. The Lancer doesn't deliever on any of these wants I've listed, and therefore wouldn't be the best all around deal. It's great that you love your Lancer, it was obviously the best car for you. It's obviously not for everyone, because I never see them on the roads (that's good if you want a unique vehicle).
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Replying to: andre1969 (Dec 07, 2007 12:32 pm) Now, if the Corolla is your thing, more power to you. However, I find it cramped, noisy, rough riding, uncomfortable, worse-handling, and slower-accelerating than my Intrepid. I also rarely have to worry about squeezing into tight parking spaces, so that advantage is pretty much a moot point for me. I'm used to driving pickup trucks and 221" long Chryslers, so to me the Intrepid IS a small, nimble car! However, to someone else, who doesn't really need something Intrepid-sized, and is comfortable with the Corolla, then they should go for it. It's a perfectly adequate car, but it just doesn't fit ME. So in short, buy what fits you the best, and what you're most comfortable with. If I had to go out and buy a new car right now, I'd probably get a 4-cyl Altima. It's smaller than my Intrepid, but still big enough to for me to fit in comfortably. According to the EPA, it should get better fuel economy. Basically, it's not too big, not too small, fairly economical, and fast enough for my needs. I agree with everything you've said. Buy what's best for you. Just don't ridicule other purchaser's decisions because they don't fit what you would do - they have different needs and wants. If they didn't we'd probably all be in a Camry.  And, andre, my ex-gf had a 2004 Corolla; definitely not the best car in the world for fitting tall guys behind the wheel (I'm 6'4" and the driving position was HORRIBLE). I too like the new Altima, but that's a topic for another board. )
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Replying to: thegraduate (Dec 07, 2007 12:32 pm) Fit - 27/34, LOADS of cargo space with magic seats, GREAT handling Yaris - 29/35, the Yaris gets in city stop and go what the Lancer gets on the highway! Can we please add the Scion xD in here because it is basically the 5 door Yaris that is sold overseas with a different body style. It's also roomy and the seats are more comfortable than the Fit and the Versa at least for me. The Figures Scion xD - 27/33 so the same as the Versa. The xD has a Corolla engine in it which is very reliable as well.
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Replying to: tiff_c (Dec 07, 2007 12:39 pm)
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Replying to: iluvmysephia1 (Dec 07, 2007 12:12 pm) Personally, I don't understand why so many people are so concerned about vehicle comfort. Granted, some people have long commutes, but most of us spend very little time in a car relative to everything else we do. Conversely I never hear people complain about how uncomfortable their chair at work is. I actually think my Prizm is comfortable (6 ft+ 200 lbs) but it is just a tool which gets me to and from work. I value the economy, low maintenance costs and ease of parking. Cars are bad places to stick your money anyway, so it never made much sense to me to stick anymore money into it than I have to. I actually chose it because it had a MT, no PW and no PL. Of course these are just my feelings, but as much as I like cars I have never become accustomed to how strongly people feel about their vehicles and how many creature comforts they expect. 
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