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Automotive News & Views What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?
8564 messages, Last post on Oct 23, 2009 at 10:37 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Dec 06, 2007 8:52 am)
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The motivation for the electric fortwo is zero emissions, not improved mileage. Consider the increasing clamor in Europe over global warming, CO2 taxes, etc. 2,000 a year in 37 countries is 74,000 a year. Not exactly a horrible figure. How is 75 dealers a bad number? Mini has 80 dealers in the US, and those cars are somehow sold and serviced. |
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Dec 06, 2007 8:52 am) Oh yeah, I'm not denying that there's a lot of good potential there. Still, I think if we got the soccer Moms and the trophy wives and men with a "mine's not big enough" complex out of their Expeditions and Suburbans and into Sprinters, it would do more harm than good. They'd find ways to flip them, regardless of how good the stability control is. And when they get into crashes with smaller vehicles, the disparity could very well be even greater than it would have been with a Burb or Expedition. Now an Excursion basically WAS a medium duty truck, so there probably wouldn't be much difference there. Oh well, at least it would be harder to overload a Sprinter. I think the base payload capacity of an Expedition or Suburban is only about 1300 pounds. It's a shame that Chrysler hasn't figured out how to get the Sprinter's engine into vehicles like the Ram, Durango, and Dakota.
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Dec 06, 2007 9:06 am)   james |
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Replying to: andre1969 (Dec 06, 2007 9:09 am) A couple of years ago we were rear ended while stopped at a light. A Trailblazer hit a full size Chevy van and that van got pushed into us. The SUV's front bumper was no where near the hight of the van's bumper, so it took out the whole back of the van. The van's front bumper was exactly the same height as our rear bumper...we got a new vinyl bumper cover. That one of the reasons Ford started using "cattle catcher" sub-frames under the "bumpers" of the SUVs. I personally think because vans are lower, they are easier to get in and out of, and the siding doors make it easier to load and unload (either kids or cargo) than clunky swinging doors. I think the base payload capacity of an Expedition or Suburban is only about 1300 pounds. Yeah not so much utility for your MPG. It's a shame that Chrysler hasn't figured out how to get the Sprinter's engine into vehicles like the Ram, Durango, and Dakota. I think MBZ won't let them. The Liberty CRD engine could also be used. I think the CRD or the MBZ one is in the 300c in Europe already. |
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Replying to: bumpy (Dec 06, 2007 9:09 am) Not a horrible figure, but horrible enough to lose money since the Smart was introduced. It's NEVER MADE MONEY! Think about that.  this is SMART'S last waltz. Either they make a go, or they are folding, you can count on it.
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Replying to: bumpy (Dec 06, 2007 9:09 am) Trust me it's not fun if you don't live relatively close to one. This has put me off on buying a MINI and they seem to like having very few car dealerships. Probably has to do with their limited product line. They really need an AWD Mini, a Diesel Mini and a 4 door Mini or something to boost up the coupe and the convertible and the awful Clubman which has the worst colors a silver, black or body colored roof. Awful! Anyway Smart will be tough to fix. My guess is even if the coupe dies out they will sell a ton of the convertibles. A cheap 2 door convertible with good economy will sell it for sure. I'd consider one if I had a local dealer and they had a real manual tranny hooked up to a diesel engine. too many hills for it to be practical and a Smart is just horrible in the snow even with snow tires. I've seen the Video it's too short and light for the snow. Pity.
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Replying to: tiff_c (Dec 06, 2007 9:47 am) But the diesel Smart is certainly possible and that might turn things around. Right now, a SMART has zero advantages over competitors, but if a diesel SMART could pump out 50-75 mpg, that would encourage sales---albeit again to a limited audience. But I bet diesel SMARTS could turn a modest profit in the USA. One problem for SMART, and all small car makers, is the ugly FACT. The UF is: The compact, subcompact, micro-car market is brutally competitive and not very profitable per unit. It only works if you either a) sell boatloads, like Toyota, or b) sell them for a lot of $$$, like MINI.
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Dec 06, 2007 9:45 am) They never made money because they kept spending it on product that didn't pan out: the Roadster, the forfour, and the SUV thing that never got made. Now, they've refocused on their core product, sourced an existing drivetrain for it, and opened up a large new market. If they can't make any money now, they are done. |
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Dec 06, 2007 9:51 am) Yes I agree 100% diesels now and far better economy and a real manual at least as an option. Did you see the Video on YouTube with a Smart with an engine from a Hayabusa in it. Now that was HP overload! Smart is about economy and it's not that far off from a Corolla or a Yaris and yeah it's cheaper but not by much. Also the Smart is awful in the snow! So snowbelt states it's as useful as a motorcycle even with snow tires! I'm looking for the link. http://www.canadiandriver.com/winter/traction2006.htm I'll repost the section from it just in case Begin Our smart fortwo had all the bells and whistles: traction control, stability control, ABS, and winter tires. But none of it helped much. The smart's rear wheel drive configuration (even though the engine is over the driven wheels) coupled with its super-short wheelbase made this vehicle a major challenge on the slippery surfaces used for our exercises. smart fortwo. Click image to enlarge Acceleration from a standstill or occasionally when moving was difficult. When cornering on icy surfaces, the smart wanted to rotate on its axis. Even when stopping the smart wanted to rotate, although it did stop, ah-hem, smartly. Although everybody wanted to drive the smart, the experience didn't meet expectations. END Smart has possibilities but the car needs some improvements.
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