You are here: Forums Automotive News & Views What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

8174 messages,  Last post on Dec 04, 2008 at 6:53 PM

You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires

What is this discussion about? Nissan Versa, Toyota Yaris, Honda Fit, smart fortwo, MINI Cooper

#3525 of 8174 Germane, says I... by wale_bate1 Oct 31, 2006 (8:00 am)
Point one: the torque converter (bain of daysailer's existence IIRC) delivers a soft interface for launch and control in sloppy conditions (a success aspect of Jim Hall's 2-speed and 6-speed automatic Chaparrals) that allows the user to focus soley on application of accelerator.   Point two: the existing and upcoming generations of dual-clutch automatic manuals (George Carlin fodder fer sure) allow not only quicker shifts with no noticeable lapse in power or control, but are also as efficient as their manual counterparts, and offer gear selection control.   A good DSG and a subcompact are legitimate inferences, says I, more especially as their application broadens and and costs come down.   Point three: I had to have the Turbo-Hydra-matic overhauled, it's true. Cost me $975 back in 1983 (a small fortune to me then). Of course the odometer read 321,000 miles at the time... Replies to this message: andre1969 (Oct 31, 2006 8:10 am) wale_bate1 (Oct 31, 2006 8:16 am) andre1969 (Oct 31, 2006 9:24 am)
#3526 of 8174 Re: Germane, says I... [wale_bate1] by andre1969 Oct 31, 2006 (8:10 am)
Replying to: wale_bate1 (Oct 31, 2006 8:00 am) Point three: I had to have the Turbo-Hydra-matic overhauled, it's true. Cost me $975 back in 1983 (a small fortune to me then). Of course the odometer read 321,000 miles at the time...   Good Lord, that sounds like a small fortune even today! FWIW I've had two trannies rebuilt. The first was a THM350, back in 1993 and it was around $675. At that time though it seemed like a small fortune though! I had a Torqueflite 998A (heavier-duty lockup torque converter version of the 904) rebuilt in 1997 for around $650.   Maybe labor rates are just cheaper around these parts though? Replies to this message: wale_bate1 (Oct 31, 2006 8:16 am) andre1969 (Oct 31, 2006 9:24 am)
#3527 of 8174 Re: Germane, says I... [andre1969] by wale_bate1 Oct 31, 2006 (8:16 am)
Replying to: andre1969 (Oct 31, 2006 8:10 am) Double "A", beep, beep, M-C-O.   That's who did it, in Vallejo, CA, in 1983. Stopped on my way to Chico to pay the toll at the Carquinez booth ($.45) and never got moving again until the Cal-Trans wrecker buddy-bumpered me out of the way. AAA towed to the nearest shop (see above), and next day I was back on my way to school.   I never shopped rates, IOW... Replies to this message: andre1969 (Oct 31, 2006 9:24 am)
#3528 of 8174 Re: apples and oranges [nippononly] by boaz47 Oct 31, 2006 (8:24 am)
Replying to: nippononly (Oct 31, 2006 7:02 am) I know it is just me but at least some cars like the Mazda3 and your old RSX could dance. I have been on too many mountain roads not to admire those abilities first hand. Most sub compacts attempt to dance but they lack the legs to pull it off. (isn't anthropomorphism fun?) Yes my friend you are correct. It is all about personal preferences. For me, and no one needs to feel the way I do, it is the ability to push you back in the seat when coming out of a tight uphill turn and maintaining some speed going into that same turn. With the exception of a Mini cooper every sub compact I have been in, and no, I haven't been in a Echo in those conditions, but I have been in a xA and while we could come into a turn with most Accords we would simply get left behind coming out of the turn and there was simply nothing we could do to keep up. I know it is my own perception but knowing that even if I wring every bit of ability my vehicle possesses I am simply keeping up with people who can easily out pace me if they want to. It is easy to shrug it off and say, that's Ok, and they had a Porsche, Corvette, BMW because that isn't the average car. It is just harder to take when a girl in her mom's G6 or worse yet Avalon pulls away from you coming out of a turn while drinking a soda.   I fully realize Nippon that it is the fuel mileage you desire. I can respect that. If I only had to drive down hill everywhere one of these relatively heavy 108 HP subcompacts might seem more interesting. But with the Focus, Cobalt and Mazda3 so easy to find at discounted prices it is just so easy to see myself in one. But my commute is a lot shorter than yours.
#3529 of 8174 Power to dig ........................... by daysailer Oct 31, 2006 (8:58 am)
out of corners, or anywhere else, is a desirable quality and is my greatest reservation about the Fit and its ilk. 109hp would be ok in a 2000lbm car, much less so 2500lbm! But if I cannot have power AND responsive handling, I'd sooner forsake power. Replies to this message: wale_bate1 (Oct 31, 2006 9:15 am) Mr_Shiftright (Oct 31, 2006 9:20 am)
#3530 of 8174 Re: Power to dig ........................... [daysailer] by wale_bate1 Oct 31, 2006 (9:15 am)
Replying to: daysailer (Oct 31, 2006 8:58 am) Ditto.
#3531 of 8174 Re: Power to dig ........................... [daysailer] by Mr_Shiftright HOST Oct 31, 2006 (9:20 am)
Replying to: daysailer (Oct 31, 2006 8:58 am) It's all in the gearshift and brakes really, if you want to come in slow and go out fast. This can even be done in a car with 45 HP and 750cc....but 1st gear synchro and a manual transmission would be minimal requirements. On the flip side, too much power only messes you up in a turn if you aren't skillful. The midget might bog in a turn but Big Foot ends up in a ditch.   And I must respectfaully disagree...subcompacts can be very sporty and agile. They have size and weight on their side. True, not all will be sporty or agile, but some of them are at the very least agile cars that you can toss around quite nicely. Iwouldn't, couldn't, shouldn't mustn't drive a car that wasn't at least some FUN. I'd die like a bachelor's house plant.
#3532 of 8174 Re: Germane, says I... [wale_bate1] by andre1969 Oct 31, 2006 (9:24 am)
Replying to: wale_bate1 (Oct 31, 2006 8:16 am) I never shopped rates, IOW...   Yeah, I guess sometimes they just have you over a barrel and you need to git'er done! I really lucked out with both of my automatic tranny failures. The first one was really prolonged, and gave me plenty of warning, so my mechanic, who really didn't like to play with transmissions, recommended a place just down the street, and they rebuilt my '82 Cutlass for about $675.   With my '79 Newport, as luck would have it it lost all range of motion about a half-mile from another local transmission shop, the place I deal with nowadays for tranny work. And how's this for coincidence? The guys at this tranny shop asked me how much I paid for the car. When I told them I paid $250 for it, they said that if I had come by their place about 5 months ago, they would've given it to me! Turns out they had this car in their shop before, and when they told the previous owner that it needed a new tranny, he didn't want to put any more money into it, so he just gave it to them, and they ended up hauling it to the junkyard, where I saw it and bought it!
#3533 of 8174 Shifty, that was my point!...................... by daysailer Oct 31, 2006 (9:28 am)
To be as one with the machine may be a cliche, but it does capture the essential difference between cars that I enjoy driving and those that are tolerable. In "oneness", the driver seems to interact directly with the driving environment while otherwise, he merely initates a sequence of events that the machine completes. The differences can be subtle, perhaps only perceptual, but there ARE differences. Replies to this message: Mr_Shiftright (Oct 31, 2006 9:31 am) boaz47 (Oct 31, 2006 10:30 am) Mr_Shiftright (Oct 31, 2006 10:50 am)
#3534 of 8174 Re: Shifty, that was my point!...................... [daysailer] by Mr_Shiftright HOST Oct 31, 2006 (9:31 am)
Replying to: daysailer (Oct 31, 2006 9:28 am) Absolutely. There are powerful cars I hate to drive, and meager horsepower ones that I love to drive---there are so many factors and varieties in what we call a "car", that one never quite knows what the experience will be like.   A car "on paper" is SO different from the same car in real life. Replies to this message: boaz47 (Oct 31, 2006 10:30 am) Mr_Shiftright (Oct 31, 2006 10:50 am)

You are here: Forums Automotive News & Views What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?