You are here: Forums Automotive News & Views What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

8691 messages,  Last post on Dec 04, 2009 at 1:39 PM

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What is this discussion about? Nissan Versa, Toyota Yaris, Honda Fit, smart fortwo, MINI Cooper

#31 of 8691 RE: Nippon, by boaz47 [jlawrence01] by boaz47 Jan 16, 2006 (8:28 am)
Replying to: jlawrence01 (Jan 15, 2006 9:30 pm) "Why bring up the Amish as they don't OWN vehicles?"   Simple hyperbole. It was to point out that Americans do not tend to think about things based on need. It is the thought process or structure I was referring to. That question was asked Rhetorically by Nippon about how to get people interested in driving only what they need and I don't believe that will ever happen. We as a society tend to be dreamers. Many of us buy big SUVs because we feel we might want to be rugged and go off road or pull our boat out of the water with ease. The problem is most SUV owners never realize that dream and so they buy what they don't need but rather what they want. That is why advertising works so well. It gets us thinking about having the best of something not about if we need it or not. Sub Compacts can be useful to many I am sure. For 80 percent of the time they might be all I or anyone still working needed. But they don't represent having the best of anything,"in our culture". Our country was founded on the very idea that everyone could be whatever they wanted and work towards having whatever they can afford. That idea isn't likely to change in my life time.  All I am saying is that basic transportation isn't likely to become the goal of anyone trying to succeed in this country. Sub Compacts may have a bright star now and then in cars like the Cooper. But they will not be the mainstreams first choice so they aren't likely to pay more for them as so will almost always remain basic transportation.   At least they are more likely to provide Nippon with his manual transmission longer than the mainstream cars will.
#32 of 8691 Oh, I'm trying to stay out of this one by iluvmysephia1 Jan 16, 2006 (9:05 am)
but this is what epinions are for, eh? And I did mean epinions, not opinions. That's because we're all online. Tee-hee.   Americans obviously must think that they deserve what they want and not what they need. What I "needed" turned out to be what I wanted the most, anyway. I was thrilled by the performance of the 1999 Kia Sephia that first turned me on to Kia Motors of South Korea. I tend to look for value and I tend to look for body styling (the Sephia bodystyling blows away Civic and Corolla bodystyling) and good powertrains. The Kia motor vehicles deliver in all of those areas.   I would never be happy with a behemoth pick-em-up truck or a behemoth SUV. They're huge, they're ugly, they're an annoyance to everyone on the road because of how much space they take up and they get crappy gas mileage. I am of the epinion that ghastly is not going to go down in price, only stay the same or go up. I gave my opinion here on Edmunds about 3 months ago that ghastly would level off around $2.00/gal for 87 no-lead and only go up from there. What do you all see happening?   I love the Kia interiors and I am fixing to trade in my 2001 Kia Sportage 4x4 for a 2006 Kia Rio LX in a few weeks. With the recent college grad rebate of $400 and the owner loyalty rebate Kia just told America about of $500 my 2006 Kia Rio LX in Sapphire Blue, 5-speeds and otherwise equipped just how I need (and want!), I will pay a whopping $12,155. Whoo-pee. Writers are raving about it's quiet interior for such a small car and it's great acceleration up to freeway speeds. It doesn't even make sense for me to look at used rigs. The new Rio's are European-inspired in design and Kia has really done a great job in styling on this new Rio and Rio5. I may go for a Rio5 still. Won't know until early February when I go in with my proof of Sportage title, college degree and huge smile on my face 'cause I'm gettin' a new Kia.   These guys just keep getting better and better. Closing quip for y'all: anyone know who produces the brightest students year after year?   Did you guess South Korea? If you did then you're correct. Now, you know at least a fraction of those smarties are coming to work for Kia Motors (South Korea's oldest car maker)and Hyundai Motors.   Early reports are very favorable concerning the new Kia Rio twins. Motor Trend's January issue includes the 2006 Kia Rio5 as one of it's 28 contenders for 2006 Car of The Year.   I noticed the fine quality and value of Kia motorcars way back in 1999 while America slept and revered their oversized pick-em-up trucks and SUV's. Kia quality has only improved since then and their prices are so low that I couldn't pass up a new Kia if I wanted to.   Did anyone mention Warranties? Replies to this message: harrychezt (Jan 16, 2006 2:07 pm) snakeweasel (Jan 18, 2006 2:21 pm) boaz47 (Jan 16, 2006 4:13 pm) socala4 (Jan 16, 2006 8:53 pm)
#33 of 8691 the old days by Mr_Shiftright HOST Jan 16, 2006 (9:34 am)
Maybe in the old days a subcompact felt like a bargain basement vehicle, but not any more. After test driving I see no difference in a $14K car and a $20K car, because really a lot of the price difference is in gadgetry, not the basic car.   As for the Mini, I shopped one as a "step up" kind of car, but when I saw the reliability records I couldn't believe how troublesome they were. No thanks. And really, you want the "S" model (the base car is rather slow), and with options that busts through $20K and goes up from there.   So basically the diff between a Mini S and a well-equipped subcompact was $10,000!! Is it "built" any better? I didn't see it. Is it faster, more fun, etc...? Oh, yeah! Replies to this message: nippononly (Jan 16, 2006 4:23 pm)
#34 of 8691 Re: Oh, I'm trying to stay out of this one [iluvmysephia1] by harrychezt Jan 16, 2006 (2:07 pm)
Replying to: iluvmysephia1 (Jan 16, 2006 9:05 am) Rio is better than the new Accent. Why? Had seats back in th e Rio, and room to sit(I got behind the driver's seat, after I adjusted it for comfort). The Accent... I do not know what the numbers say, but I could NOT get behind the driver's seat, after adjusting for my comfort, w/o sitting sideways I am not a tall guy, either.   The Accent bored me with it's external look, also.   I asked the Kia dealership, and they can put sunroof on(if ordered) but the cruise control, would have to be a 2 hour job, they said. They use an aftermarket place, and has 3/36K warranty.   I could get one loaded like I want(where's the leather? Aveo 07 model has it as an option! and rumored loaded for 15K, with sunroof and cruise, etc). Even Reno has leather(of sorts) for 15K, and sunroof, et al. 7/100K warranty on major parts is good. I am looking towards the rumored(on "future vehicles" Sporty Reno for 07. If it fits the bill, may buy one.   At this stage of my life(middle-aged) I am wanting Maybe an Eclipse! All I need is room for the dog(back seat) and spouse(passenger seat). 10/100K warranty, too.   Anyhow, If I had to go for small, I'd wait for Summer, look at the Aveo(from what I have read and have seen, it looks decent, and should be a solid car. 5 star crash test for current model), and Kia Rio. Rio5 is sharper looking, but smaller. Maybe too small for the land of giant vehicles? Replies to this message: snakeweasel (Jan 18, 2006 2:21 pm)
#35 of 8691 Re: Oh, I'm trying to stay out of this one [iluvmysephia1] by boaz47 Jan 16, 2006 (4:13 pm)
Replying to: iluvmysephia1 (Jan 16, 2006 9:05 am) Might I ask why you stick your chin out like that? We start talking about sub compacts and their image and maybe even reliability and you come in with Kia who is once again on the bottom of JD Powers dependability list? Have they ever been off the bottom? Even the discontinued Daewoo is rated as more dependable. If I were in the market for a sub compact why in the world would I consider a car rated lower than the Mini Shifty mentioned? Remember the JD Powers study is done by interviewing owners of the vehicles listed. It sure doesn't look like they got your survey back. I am glad you have a good Kia and I hope it continues to give you great service. But they still don't seem like a good choice if they are still rated so low. Replies to this message: socala4 (Jan 16, 2006 8:53 pm)
#36 of 8691 Re: the old days [Mr_Shiftright] by nippononly Jan 16, 2006 (4:23 pm)
Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jan 16, 2006 9:34 am) Exactly! The Echo I just got is basically the current-gen Yaris in the rest of the world, which is to be replaced by the next-gen car that debuted at the LA Auto Show.   I was checking out the AW AutoFile on it:   0-60 in 8.46 seconds, beats Camry 4-cyl and is about the same as Corolla.   Noise: 40 db at idle, 68 db at 60 mph, about the same as those other cars, and notably better than many sporty cars out there.   60-0: 132 feet, about the same among these three models(and better than the much more expensive Matrix I had for a while a couple of years back, as are all these numbers).   Skidpad is mediocre at 0.75g, but it's not like the Camry beats it by any significant amount (0.77, I think?). Corolla is a similar story in base form.   At the $14K price point, it has A/C, 6-speaker CD, cruise, tons of in-cabin storage, and a tilt wheel. It's a comfortable, reliable, peppy round-town ride, and it's just one example.   With its looks, of course, it is also the original mutant klown car, but there are other subcompacts out there with the looks nailed. As will the Fit, next-gen Yaris, Rio5, and Aveo, IMO. Subcompacts do NOT have to feel like bargain basement cars any more. They do not have to look like them either. And they can out-sport larger more expensive cars with, in some cases, significant dollar savings.
#37 of 8691 Then Nippon by boaz47 Jan 16, 2006 (7:20 pm)
why do you feel that mid sized cars are preferred to sub compacts by such a great percent? Or better yet does anyone think the sub compact market is likely to gain on the larger vehicles? will the American consumer ever be ready to stop buying bigger vehicles and embrace the sub compact? I doubt it personally. Sure they may make some kind of comeback but I doubt it. The Accord started small and got bigger. The Civic was smaller than it is today. even little trucks, the compact truck market is getting bigger. Just to ask a question, what do you think will happen to the compact truck? Replies to this message: Mr_Shiftright (Jan 16, 2006 8:10 pm) nippononly (Jan 16, 2006 11:41 pm) redmaxx (Sep 13, 2006 2:30 pm) Mr_Shiftright (Sep 13, 2006 2:41 pm) and 24 more... british_rover (Sep 13, 2006 2:49 pm) and 4 more...
#38 of 8691 Re: Then Nippon [boaz47] by Mr_Shiftright HOST Jan 16, 2006 (8:10 pm)
Replying to: boaz47 (Jan 16, 2006 7:20 pm) If the price point is good, they will switch, especially in urban area and especially on both coasts I think.   Right now, subcompacts are offering a LOT...a LOT...of value for the buck and this is irresistable to the very young, to retirees and to third car families.
#39 of 8691 Re: Oh, I'm trying to stay out of this one [boaz47] by socala4 Jan 16, 2006 (8:53 pm)
Replying to: boaz47 (Jan 16, 2006 4:13 pm) We start talking about sub compacts and their image and maybe even reliability and you come in with Kia who is once again on the bottom of JD Powers dependability list?   I know someone who used to manage "lemon law" buybacks and processing for Kia. That job kept her very busy...
#40 of 8691 Re: Then Nippon [boaz47] by nippononly Jan 16, 2006 (11:41 pm)
Replying to: boaz47 (Jan 16, 2006 7:20 pm) why do people prefer midsizers, you ask? Why, the answer is simple, rampant out-of-control commercialism! We tote so much unnecessary junk around in our lives, we think we need extra space in our cars just to store it!   More seriously, I don't expect subcompacts to overtake midsizers any time soon, no. But we have the first serious wave of subcompact contenders just hitting American shores in the next few months that we have had in a long time. Sure, we have had the niche Scions, only recently selling in large numbers, and the Rio/Accent/Aveo marginalized by their Korean reputations and funky looks.   The next Aveo and Rio, including the Rio5, actually look modern and are fully outfitted at low prices. The Fit and Yaris will carry HonToy's reputation, while being a decent value in their own right.   I agree with you boaz, that people are very susceptible to advertising that encourages to buy what they want rather than what they need. The gas price spike this past summer was the first time they were forced to pause and think, "what do I actually NEED?". Large SUV sales dropped by 20-40% as a result.   Sprawl in our larger cities is slowing down, as people become aware of its negative effects. As the infill that results from this realization increases, more and more people will realize the benefits of owning smaller cars, not because it's cheaper but because SMALLER is what's actually needed, and in fact has advantages for maneuvering, parking, etc.   But that will be a slow process, so in general I agree that midsizers will not be knocked off their sales throne any time soon. The only thing that might cause a RAPID ramp-up in small car sales is a larger gas price spike than we saw six months ago. Replies to this message: redmaxx (Sep 13, 2006 2:30 pm) Mr_Shiftright (Sep 13, 2006 2:41 pm) redmaxx (Sep 13, 2006 3:22 pm) and 23 more... british_rover (Sep 13, 2006 2:49 pm) redmaxx (Sep 13, 2006 3:31 pm) and 3 more...

You are here: Forums Automotive News & Views What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?