You are here: Forums Automotive News & Views What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

7663 messages,  Last post on May 15, 2008 at 11:45 PM

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What is this discussion about? Nissan Versa, Toyota Yaris, Honda Fit, smart fortwo, MINI Cooper

#7654 of 7663 Re: Smart [boaz47] by andeet May 15, 2008 (1:48 pm)
Replying to: boaz47 (May 15, 2008 12:32 pm) Well, we could try using propane energy system like some other forklifts. Those puppies usually go 25-30 mph. Perfect for the city driving. Depending on when you installed new tank, you'll could operate full 8 hour shift. Oh God that brings back a lot of memories; I always got stuck with empty tank in the strangest areas like forks are stuck in the air or stuck on the product.   My company used propane for four months and our mechanics had to tune them down cause they were going way over typical 9 mph. The way Toyota has their hydraulic hoses on their trucks; distracts your front view. We had few crashes into building poles cause we weren't able to see.   I think operating forklifts should be on the list for everyone in the world should learn how to do like driving a stick shift car. Because I made ALOT of choices in my car to avoid accidents that I typically do on a forklift to avoid warehouse accidents due to selfish co-workers.   Currently, I'm suspended operating anything with wheels at work. I got busted without wearing seatbelt for one second. So I'm stuck manually unloading foreign containers (like polybags that are made in China; we have made since it's cheaper to make over there) onto pallets, hand wrapping least 200 pallets a night, and boring clean this or that.
#7655 of 7663 Re: Smart [boaz47] by nippononly May 15, 2008 (1:54 pm)
Replying to: boaz47 (May 15, 2008 12:32 pm) "But I knew climbing from almost sea level to close to 5000 feet when I was still driving down the mountain would be depressing"   How do you know? Did you ever try? One of the car mags (was it C&D? I think it was) took an Insight over Cajon Pass without a problem. And unlike some of the other hybrids along for the ride, the Insight had exemplary fuel economy despite all the steep climbing.   Meanwhile, you would have used, like, NO GAS AT ALL, on your descent if you had picked up the Insight.   I think it's funny that many of the people posting here with such well developed opinions of these cars haven't driven any of them. Many haven't even SAT in one. It's one thing to quote what a car magazine has to say about a car (and most professional reviewers have been complimentary regarding these little cars, particularly the Fit), but another to have some extensive personal opinion about something one hasn't even tried.   I don't mean to pick on you personally, boaz. There are lots of folks doing this here. Maybe it's just a Town Hall thing, I dunno.
#7656 of 7663 Re: Not yet... [boaz47] by podred May 15, 2008 (2:29 pm)
Replying to: boaz47 (May 14, 2008 6:51 pm) And talking to Honda and Toyota dealers they consider Civics, Corolla, and Scion as something to grow out of and into bigger Honda and Toyotas. In fact many here have indicated that is the market plan for the whole Scion line.   Yes indeed this is the plan and has been, from the day that Toyota and (then Datsun) Nissan began bringing their cars into this country. They took one look at how much Dearborn and Detroit were making on large cars and this became the target. The irony, is that Toyota most specifically has done the best job dealing with the politics's and push back from all directions to become the number one automaker in the world. They may not have the highest sales numbers presently but it will not be long.   An impressive performance especially when you consider todays Camry, has more American Content, than the new Chevy Malibu. Toyota has a better safety record in the manufacturing plants here were the workers get paid more, and have better benefits than their American Counterparts. A telling situation for sure.   Look at how long Toyota waited before entering the Minivan market, and now the full size pickup truck market. All the while those vehicles were as good as done, just waiting for Toyota to pick the right time to release them. The pickup truck market in particular is the last bastion of the American automotive culture.   Don't get me wrong I'm not bragging or being pro Japanese, I'm simply reporting my observations along with a few points that I know to be facts. The American Automotive "Leaders" were busy profit taking and accumulating houses, boats, and trophy wives. Then there were the obvious stupid decision making moves, such as terminating the Thunderbird before a good replacement was in place. Terminating the Camaro, (that was actually selling quite well) too early as well.   Let's see here, we "Ford" have a good product (Thunderbird) that has a long history and while it may not be the most current design, but it's selling well and we've paid off the tooling, now lets kill it! Then we will take years to revamp it completely, insure that it's really underpowered and feminine looking, and whoops... it's not selling? Kill it. No matter what the model name represents.   Then from across the street, (so to speak) GM finds the somewhat aged Camaro, another car that is selling and making a profit, .... Sheesh let's get nervous (a profit? ) and kill it off to follow Fords lead. After all the names stale, and we wouldn't want to continue a good thing. So there you have it... two milestone model names in the American car business killed off for flimsy reasons. And they wonder why they have sub par auto sales numbers.   Finally I remember in the 70's there was an insider saying within the ranks of GM: "There's an ass for every seat" alluding to the fact that if the customer walked instead of buying the new car, no big deal there is another rolling into the driveway right as they leave.   The low key approach of Toyota trumped the very companies that could have reacted in a positive way and not handed the business over to the company from Japan. Such as sad commentary. The greed of some , ruining the industry that we rely on. Replies to this message: bristol2 (May 15, 2008 2:42 pm) busiris (May 15, 2008 8:26 pm)
#7657 of 7663 Re: Not yet... [podred] by bristol2 May 15, 2008 (2:42 pm)
Replying to: podred (May 15, 2008 2:29 pm) Excellent points but not got a lot to do with sub-compacts. And I'm not sure that Toyota should get much praise for bringing out the all-new Tundra coincidentally with the highest gas prices ever.   You are right that they build pretty solid vehicles though.
#7658 of 7663 Re: Smart [andeet] by snakeweasel May 15, 2008 (3:12 pm)
Replying to: andeet (May 15, 2008 6:06 am) They told the newspaper that they average 32 MPG. My reaction...."WHAT??? I get that in my '07 Scion tC! And I get better power and space!"   They probably get that in heavy stop and go traffic and if you get that in your Scion its highway driving.   I'll be too scared to know what my body is going to look like and where I'll wake up the next day.   Unless I was driving a Abrams I would be worried about that no matter what I drove. Replies to this message: andre1969 (May 15, 2008 4:29 pm) boaz47 (May 15, 2008 8:50 pm) nippononly (May 15, 2008 9:27 pm) andeet (May 15, 2008 11:45 pm)
#7659 of 7663 Re: Smart [snakeweasel] by andre1969 May 15, 2008 (4:29 pm)
Replying to: snakeweasel (May 15, 2008 3:12 pm) Y'know, one thing I was wondering about that test, is whether or not they just went out and dogged the snot out of that little Smart, and that's what resulted in the low mileage? So while 32 mpg might sound horrible, who's to say that a Civic, Corolla, or Sentra wouldn't do 24-25 mpg under those same conditions? Replies to this message: boaz47 (May 15, 2008 8:50 pm) nippononly (May 15, 2008 9:27 pm)
#7660 of 7663 Re: Not yet... [podred] by busiris May 15, 2008 (8:26 pm)
Replying to: podred (May 15, 2008 2:29 pm) You know, I made very similar comments on another forum (GM product) not long ago. The absolute arrogance that the domestic auto makers exhibited also caused their downfall. Remember Henry Ford II's famous comments..."Small cars mean small profits"?   I guess the Japanese weren't listening that day.   However, if you look at the changes Toyota has gone through in its attempt to overtake GM and become #1, you can see a little of that same thinking beginning to surface.   Toyota may yet find out that what it takes to get to the top spot may be much different than what it takes to stay there...
#7661 of 7663 Re: Smart [andre1969] by boaz47 May 15, 2008 (8:50 pm)
Replying to: andre1969 (May 15, 2008 4:29 pm) If the report on mileage was an isolated example you might have a point. But it seems to be closer to what several different reports are saying. This is as least the second or third report of that kind of mileage for the Smart. remember this little car has been selling in the red even in Europe where fuel mileage is close to the most consideration.   Nippon I did drive the insight up our mountain at the time. A missionary friend of mine was living here and commuting to Palmdale from Arrowhead. Yes he got the 70 MPG going to Palmdale. He got a bit less coming home. But one night he allowed me to drive it from San Bernardino to Crestline. With the two of us and the climb we got passed by a Sammy. Having been the owner of several Sammies I was pretty surprised. But then it was only 1000 CCs and it had been on the freeway for several miles running at freeway speeds before he picked me up in Berdoo. You may be right and I should have bit the bullet and I now wish I had but then fuel wasn't more than 2 bucks a gallon and the Focus seemed so much more practical and it still got better than 30 MPG. Still I might keep my eye out for a used Insight. Living in the flatlands it makes a big difference as a in town car. I just don't think I will ever accept a sub compact as a road car or a highway cruiser. Only time will tell.   My wife and I have talked it over and we will not be buying anything until we see if they deliver on the promised plug in hybrids or EVs by 2010. But I have been riding a bicycle a lot more now that we moved. You wouldn't like it however, 21 speeds but no clutch. Replies to this message: nippononly (May 15, 2008 9:27 pm)
#7662 of 7663 Re: Smart [boaz47] by nippononly May 15, 2008 (9:27 pm)
Replying to: boaz47 (May 15, 2008 8:50 pm) "You wouldn't like it however, 21 speeds but no clutch."   Well, now that's just a design flaw, plain and simple!   One of the great things about the Insight: you could get one with a clutch.   I still have high hopes for the 2010 CRZ hybrid: 50 mpg combined and a clutch to go with it.
#7663 of 7663 Re: Smart [snakeweasel] by andeet May 15, 2008 (11:45 pm)
Replying to: snakeweasel (May 15, 2008 3:12 pm) I still rather spend the extra $4.00s to the tank knowing my car can out run a semi-truck that can't move to the middle lane when I'm getting onto a interstate. To me, safety is very important. I know leadfooting is dangerous but least I have a chance of getting by.   Trust me; that's why I got rid of the xA. Cause I almost got ran off the road twice. Even slamming on brakes would still side stripe the trailer. Leadfooting barely got me by.   I've been in one accident; airbags went off and windshield got smashed. I still have the burning smell memory in my head and everytime I drive by accident. That smell triggers my brain and brings chills to my spinal cord.

You are here: Forums Automotive News & Views What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?