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Hybrid Vehicles Saturn VUE Green Line Hybrid Saturn Vue Green Line Hybrid
75 messages, Last post on Feb 17, 2009 at 5:25 PM
You are in the Saturn VUE Green Line Hybrid Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer
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Replying to: ems1 (Apr 06, 2006 6:32 am) But GM is not promoting the VUE Greenline as ground breaking. It is promoting it as a hybrid option that will not add extensively to the base price of the product, but will nevertheless get gas mileage equal to best in its class. If the GreenLine had the new 6 speed transmission, I'd consider buying one. So what you are saying is the cost of the Greenline, and its mpgs compared to the competition mean nothing. But being able to say it has six speeds, well that is a world of joy. I went through this myself. When I bought my second (NB) Miata, I opted up for the six speed manual. It was a waste. I almost never used the sixth gear, I did not get better mileage than those who bought the base with the 5 speed, and it did not shift any better. If technology improves consumer experience, I am all for it. But unless you can show the lack of a six speed automatic is hindering the Greenline's stated purpose, I do not see the point of your objection. It looks like GM is on the right Track with the Saturn Outlook and Aura. They will have the 3.6 engine with a 6 speed transmission. And they will cost a lot more as well.
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Replying to: logic1 (Apr 06, 2006 7:40 am) The jury is still out on whether the GreenLine will be cost effective. We will have to see what the real world mileage is. You have to drive most hybrids over 100,000 miles to, at least, break even. If the Vue has a payback at less than 50,000 miles, I guess that would be a success. I think most people want leading edge technology, whether it makes their life better or not. I guess that is just human nature. Would I rather have a 5 or 6 speed transmission over a 4 speed? YES. I don't want old technology in my cell phone, TV, car or even a refrigerator.
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Replying to: ems1 (Apr 06, 2006 9:45 am) Assuming the new VUE is mechanically sound, I think the payback will be almost immediate. A base Escape comes in around 19k. The Hybrid Escape starts at 27k. The base Highlander is around 22k. The Hybrid Highlander starts at 33k. The base VUE, with the 2.2 litre and manual starts at 17k. The VUE greenline will have the 2.4 and automatic, and the electric boost starting at 23k. I guess if you want to consider the VUE with the V6 starts at around 21k, then you do need to put on some miles for the better mpgs to kick in. I think most people want leading edge technology, whether it makes their life better or not. I guess that is just human nature. Would I rather have a 5 or 6 speed transmission over a 4 speed? YES. I don't want old technology in my cell phone, TV, car or even a refrigerator. I agree to an extent. I travel a lot and use computers and the internet a lot. So I have a brand spanking new QWERTY device and an IMac intel at home. Personally, I am no chef. I could have bought a Viking stove when I remodeled my kitchen. But I went with a Maytag instead. I know a lot of people who just go with the free telephone with service contract, have a base Dell, but then splurge when they buy their oven. GM thinks there are people out there who want a high mileage cute ute, but do not want to pay an 8 to 10k penalty to get one. I would say the VUE greenline has my interest. On the other hand, I looked at the Escape and the Highlander hybrids long enough to see the price. I know if I bought the VUE I would not get something like Ford and Toyota are using. But I do not drive a lot anymore anyway. |
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I know I wouldn't mind driving a Hybrid if the IRS rebates essentially paid for the engine, and the small fuel gains are still gains. The price is the main driving force here- the Escape Hybrid costs almost $30K but somewhere at NAIAS I read that the VUE Green Line was supposed to come in at $24K. I guess I would be willing to take the risk, maybe try it out and see how things work out. Maybe in a few years  (When that Civic finally kicks the bucket, which may be never)
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Replying to: jchan2 (Apr 06, 2006 6:01 pm) 
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Replying to: logic1 (Apr 05, 2006 5:25 pm) I do believe that GM's problems are indicative of their automotive engineering. It is a corporate culture. Chrysler and Ford are in trouble, but nothing like GM. And yes, there are generally other sources for technical information on the hybrid system used in the Vue. I posted a link to one of them. And, of course, our host, Edmunds.com, is a great "3rd party" site for information. So far I haven't found anyone who makes the claims that you presented as being from GM.
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Replying to: stevedebi (Apr 09, 2006 1:33 pm) http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/AutoshowArticles/articleId=108808 The article reads as though it comes from GM, which makes sense, as Edmunds does not have access to a VUE Hybrid at present. No one does. GM has not started making them yet. As you appear to doubt I got the original information from GM, here is the link to where I read it at the Saturn sight: http://www.saturn.com/saturn/vehicles/futurevehicles/index.jsp
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Replying to: logic1 (Apr 09, 2006 2:12 pm) I have no doubt you got the details from GM; it is just that I don't trust GM to tell the whole tale (without some proof, either by reviews of the actual product or by some detailed engineering information). I would like to see the technical details of the GM system. I do see that GM is claiming electrical assist, but I have not seen the technical details, such as one finds on the HSD and IMA systems, telling exactly how the "electrical assist" works. Part of the reason I am wary is that the GM system only runs about $2000 more than the ICE version. Either it is less complex than even the IMA (which is fairly simple), or GM is incredibly efficient. If Toyota can't make a full hybrid for that price, and Honda can't make a hybrid for that price, it is difficult for me to believe that GM can do so. So I am skeptical on their claims until proven with engineering details. So far the only claims I have seen are the ones I have described earlier. I will keep an open mind on the subject until details are available. BTW, this is not shouting. THIS IS SHOUTING...
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Replying to: stevedebi (Apr 10, 2006 11:49 am) This is cheaper than the current ToyHonFord (Escape) system because it does not require an additional set of gears to the electric engine.* But that is the point GM is making for the Green Line. They are not claiming the Green Line will get Prius mpgs. Rather, they are saying at almost no cost to the consumer allowing the IRS rebate, the Greenline will return gas mileage closer to a compact car than a compact SUV. I do not see how this is misleading or unfair in any way. I've always seen all bold outside of the title line as shouting as well. To each their own, I suppose. *n.b.: If my understanding is correct, the hybrid Daimler and GM are developing will incorporate the electric engines within the drive train. This should also keep prices somewhat lower than they are now.
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Replying to: logic1 (Apr 10, 2006 12:52 pm) http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/08/gm_to_introduce.html
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