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Sedans Lincoln MKS Lincoln MKS
2770 messages, Last post on Nov 12, 2009 at 11:00 AM
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I am looking at the Mark S from two different viewpoints. First, as an enthusiast who is pretty hard-headed Ford loyal, I agree with most of the criticisms already noted. My preference would have been a rear drive platform, (stretched Mustang platform but with IRS) a real name, (Continental) more original styling, (2002 concept) and a Ford engine. (4.6 DOHC with VVT) However, I am also looking at the Mark S from a serious buyer's standpoint. I will likely OWN one of these unless something changes for the worse. I like the Volvo DNA. I hear very good things about the Yamaha engine, even though I cringe a little at the thought. While not too original, I like the looks better than about anything else in its class. Ford interiors keep getting better. With the transverse engine, this thing will have a ton of room in it compared to the LS - probably similar to a Ford 500. Since the platform will be pretty high volume, the cost should be very competitive. Am I crazy to want one of these to replace my LS V8? Anyone else think they would buy one based on what you have seen?
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Replying to: brucelinc (Jan 12, 2006 6:09 am) Both the Five Hundred and Mark S give the impression of being shorter cars than they really are. They are big cars, so why shouldn't they look more their actual size? I recall when the 1996 Taurus was introduced. Even though it was significantly longer than the previous one, it looked smaller until you parked it next to something else. (That it was just plain weird didn't help either!) I think this is at least in part why some of us don't see the MKS as pretty, even though the styling is not bad. While other manufacturers are cutting the front overhang down (and even Lincoln did so with the LS), Lincoln is going for more overhang. In some respects, it is proportioned like the new Passat, which also seems too lengthy for its wheelbase, and gives the same chunky (rather than sleek) impression. To their credit, Ford has given these cars impressive leg room, given the shorter wheelbase. They went for rear leg room and trunk space. However, the Five Huncred is also very wide--but that does not translate into interior width. Shoulder and hip room is more comparable with an intermediate, not full-size car. I hope the Mark S will carve out more interior width too, but we will see...
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Replying to: gregg_vw (Jan 12, 2006 6:40 am) As for the S80, it will be on my short list but I am thinking it will be $10,000 more than the Mark S. I don't want to spend that kind of bucks. I am also thinking of a low-mileage pre-owned XJ8. Oh well, I only have 102,000 miles on my LS and it still looks and runs like new. I have some time to ponder..... |
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Replying to: brucelinc (Jan 12, 2006 6:09 am) Well said, Bruce. That's the car they should build. The way things are going, soon they won't have anything with an American V8 in it except big trucks and the Mustang. Shame. WOuld I buy the Emm Kay Ess to replace my 5speed getrag '01 LS? I would probably consider it. The rear end styling would be off-putting for sure. Price would be a big consideration and I doubt this car will be affordable enough. My LS stickered at 37,500 in 2001 with all options except heated seats. I expect this car would be at least $5K more than that. My situation has changed too in many ways, not the least being my employer gave me an unwanted Christmas bonus this year - an empty box to put my sh_t in and permission to go home early the day before Christmas. So I won't be buying any luxo cars anytime soon. In fact, will almost certainly have to sell my Navigator. :>( That said, I was really shocked yesterday when AE posted the pix of the 02 Conti concept. I had forgotten about it and when I saw it again I remembered how much I had liked it. And I still do. For me, it almost ruins the MKS in comparison. The MK CC looks like a Lincoln from all angles. The MKS looks Lincoln from the front and that's it. Looks like a lot of other cars from the other angles. AE is so right in questioning why Lincoln is not pursuing it's DNA with the MK CC. And the 'other' car to come later (ANT, I thought this one was going to be an '07, the other an '08 - so it's really '08 and '09 - that's a LONG time to wait for a serious Lincoln flagship. Did they fire ALL the engineers?) is going to look more like the 500/Montego twins unless a miracle occurs. So that's the future of Lincoln? Oh well, All things must pass. - GH |
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I'm sure Ford would LOVE to build a new RWD platform for Lincoln. Unfortunately they just can't afford it right now. They need new products that can be sold in volume at a decent profit level. The profits can then be used to develop a new platform. The mustang platform can't be used (major oversight IMO) and the Jag platforms are too expensive. I would expect the next generation of the mustang platform to be viable for larger sedans as well. George - why would you expect this car to be more expensive than the LS? The D3 platform will have 2 Lincolns, 2 or more Volvos and 3 Ford/Mercurys in addition to being a cheaper platform to start with. Not sure about the yamaha V8 but it can't be much more expensive than the 3.9L AJ based V8. I still think base price will start in the mid 30's if for no other reason than that's what the market will dictate. If they're smart they'll start it low (even if there's not a lot of profit at that price) and raise it slowly over time after it becomes popular. |
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Replying to: akirby (Jan 12, 2006 8:45 am) Well, I just priced (here on Edmunds) the MKS' stablemate, the Volvo S80. Equipped with options like my '01 LS and with the addition of AWD (I don't want FWD) this car has a TMV over $43,000. And that's with a 208HP 5cyl engine. Add $$$s for a V8 and a tranny to take the extra torque and it's even mo money. So, is the Lincoln *really* gonna be $10K cheaper than the S80 as someone said? If true, then the Zephyr is history as it'll be only about $2K cheaper than the MKS.
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Replying to: akirby (Jan 12, 2006 8:45 am) Lincoln has had several concepts in the past 3 years that borrowed from classic Continental lines. Even the Aviator concept did. You'd think in three years they could have gotten one to market--RWD (using a modified TC platform) or FWD. There is no reason the D3 couldn't have been given such cues, rather than the going with the innocuous/unidentifiable 2008 Mark S. The Zephyr starts at $30,000. They could have started it lower, both to kickstart sales and improve residuals, but they didn't. Maybe they will learn a lesson? The scary part is all the time they have already had to learn lessons. The Continental concept is going on 4 years old. It is not like they did not have some creative ideas that could have been real cars (with justifiably higher price tags) by now.
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Replying to: gregg_vw (Jan 12, 2006 9:22 am) And one day before AE's comment I posted the following in the LS topic: "In my opinion, Lincoln's problem is due to a total lack of focus. The suits want to appeal to a younger, more affluent demographic one minute and the next they want to hang on to ball cap Paw Paw and his Town Car operating(you can't really call them drivers) pals. Look at Lincoln's advertising campaigns; just try and find a coherent theme. Travel Well? Reach Higher? What's next, Geeze Gracefully? Putter Proficiently? I loved my father's Mark VII LSC. It had looks and performance unlike any other Lincoln since-save the LS. Now it appears that Lincoln's mission statement is to tart up Mazda and Volvo platforms in order to duke it out the bottom rung Acuras and Lexus. A marque with Lincoln's proud history deserves far, far better." |
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Replying to: heyjewel (Jan 12, 2006 9:11 am) As for pricing, I was speculating that the 2007 S80 V8 would be around $50K MSRP. Assuming that Volvo is somewhat upmarket from Lincoln, and Lincoln doesn't want to go there, I threw out the "$10K cheaper" for the Mark S. That could be wishful thinking on my part, but if that is somewhat close, there is still room for the Zephyr at around $30. |
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Replying to: gregg_vw (Jan 12, 2006 9:22 am) They're selling every Zephyr they can produce right now, so why do you think they need a kickstart? Look at the LS and Stype. They used the same platforms but the Stype was $10K higher than the LS (at least). So I can definitely see the new sedan coming in below $40K. Remember Volvos are imported whereas the Mark S (the correct pronunciation) will be made here.
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