Last post on Nov 25, 2013 at 2:27 PM
You are in the Lincoln MKS
What is this discussion about?
Lincoln MKS, Sedan
#2684 of 2980 Re: Lincoln MKS vs. Cadillac CTS [akirby]
Jul 20, 2009 (8:46 am)
Actually, to split a hair here, the Focus was not just a cheap car. It appeared during a time when Ford was really considering a move toward world cars (one which unfortunately fell flat, as the Contour was too European sized at the time, and the Focus turned out to be a bit ahead of itself). The Focus replaced the Escort and was hailed by the automotive press here 10 years ago. It came off very well in comparison to the Cavalier and Neon competition. However, it was hatchback-based and like the Contour, not completely to American tastes at the time. Funny how they dumbed it down in time by 2008 to be another also-ran, and now the European Focus will again come to save the day. This time I hope the car is really timely.
Nice to see the MKS has added another layer of smooth and quiet for the 2010 model year. It is what people expect of a luxury ride now.
#2685 of 2980 Re: Lincoln MKS vs. Cadillac CTS [gregg_vw]
Jul 20, 2009 (10:46 am)
Let me rephrase that. The Focus - because it was the lowest priced car on the lot - became the defacto "cheap" car for Ford dealers. Most were ordered stripped down with few options to meet a price point and compete with Kias and Hyundais and Suzukis. It didn't even offer a Navigation option until recently.
I expect the Fiesta and the Focus to get all available amenities going forward to compete with similar vehicles from other mfrs. Sync was a major step in that direction. The old Ford would have made that available on higher end vehicles only.
The new Ford realizes that people will buy loaded Fiestas and Focuses and that they will make more profit off fully loaded vehicles.
#2686 of 2980 Re: 2010 MKS Ecoboost pricing [grega]
Jul 22, 2009 (6:59 am)
Yes, a $7000 premium for TwinForce in the 2010 Flex and FE equal to the standard Flex V6. 355HP in a FWD vehicle so it MUST be automatically DERATED/DETUNED at WOT in the low gear ranges.
A 355HP Ford Flex "family" vehicle that appeals to only "motorheads", "turboheads", and those with a "boy-racer" mentality.
What must Ford be thinking...??
Put the TwinForce engine in the Mustang and the SHO and leave it at that.
#2687 of 2980 Re: Lincoln MKS vs. Cadillac CTS [dmitrib]
Jul 22, 2009 (7:06 am)
Ecoboost is simply a rebranding of the TWINFORCE turbocharged engine design in hopes of selling (green tinted) SNAKE OIL to the US automotive buying public.
#2688 of 2980 Re: 2010 MKS Ecoboost pricing [wwest]
Jul 22, 2009 (7:10 am)
Why do you care if someone wants 360 hp in a Flex or MKS and they're willing to pay for it? The fact that the Ecoboost versions get the same or better FE than the non-Ecoboost versions is quite impressive.
I think you severely underestimate the market for such a vehicle. Ford needs to offer vehicles for all buyers and there are Flex and MKS buyers who would not buy one without the Ecoboost engine option. They would be buying V8 models from competitors.
#2689 of 2980 Re: Lincoln MKS vs. Cadillac CTS [wwest]
Jul 22, 2009 (7:11 am)
The buying public knows exactly what it's buying. They're buying V8 performance with V6 Fuel Economy. Take your personal agenda elsewhere.
#2690 of 2980 Re: Lincoln MKS vs. Cadillac CTS [datagen]
Jul 22, 2009 (7:16 am)
You have hit the NAIL squarely on the HEAD.
EcoBoost is simply the old gas guzzling TwinForce engine design now rebranded due to gas rising to $4.00/gallon.
$7,000 premium for TwinForce in the new Ford Flex with FE only equal to the Flex with standard 3.5L V6. Had Ford seen fit to use DFI in the standard V6 it could ahve be reduced to 3.0L, still produced 270HP and substantial FE improvement.
#2691 of 2980 Re: Lincoln MKS vs. Cadillac CTS [lilengineerboy]
Jul 22, 2009 (7:28 am)
"..If everyone wanted a tiny slow car that got 100 mpg, they would be available..."
Why go to such extremes...??
On the other hand your "extreme" seems to be currently applying to a greater buying group then the "TwinForce " (boy-racer, motorhead, turbohead) buying group. See all the Prius, TwoFor, etc, out there on the roads these days..??
"..Choices to consumers.."
Yes, Mustangs and SHO's to the 1% POWER group and 270HP FE conscious Flex "family" vehicles for the other 98%
Just what, where, is the market for a Ford Flex "family" vehicle with 355HP and relatively POOR FE. Ford Flex "family" vehicle, FWD vehicle, wherein that TwinForce engine MUST be automatically derated/detuned in the low gear ranges.
#2692 of 2980 Re: Lincoln MKS vs. Cadillac CTS [datagen]
Jul 22, 2009 (7:35 am)
What you are missing....
The TwinForce engine design was put on the Ford engineering drawing boards back when the early success of the retrograde Mustang seemed to indicate that the HORSEPOWER race could/would be restarted.
While everyone else was looking to DFI to improve engine efficiency and thereby FE Ford was in the midst of developing a new engine series for the upcoming HP RACE.
Then gas hit $4.00/gal.
And TwinForce suddenly needed to somehow reflect environmental consciousness. Green tinted SNAKE OIL.
So the TWINFORCE engine series was rebranded...
#2693 of 2980 Re: Lincoln MKS vs. Cadillac CTS [akirby]
Jul 22, 2009 (7:53 am)
Yes, and the 2010 Ford Flex is available with the TwinForce engine, $7000 premium, or a standard V6, having equal FE in both. I'd bet you right now that 98% of those will go out the door without the TwinForce engine.
Probably even worse (better..??), closer to 100%, were the standard V6 to have DFI and only 3.0L to produce that same 270HP. The 2% gain would be made up by additional sales resulting from public recognition of the Flex's FE.