- #2612 of 2770
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Re: Ok.... [emrnibbles1]
by russ68
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May 24, 2009 (3:22 pm)
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Replying to: emrnibbles1 (May 22, 2009 1:18 pm)
Hi! I'm a potential buyer of a MKS or Navigator with hybrid Technology. I'm 40yr in age and you know what? I really don't care where the foam comes from or if it is real or not. I am very interested in a quite cabin #1, Good sturdy design and finishes that will last. Evan if I decide to keep the care 20 years (garaged of course) #2. I really think Lincoln MKZ 40 mpg and Mercury Milan 42 mpg are doing a great job. I wish they would just introduce the hybrid technology on there SUV's along with the ecoboost on models that appeal to those of us that like space and it's pleasures. I won't even look at a vehicle if I ride in the back of it and can't hear someone in the front due to road noise. In this day and age that is not realistic in a 40k + vehicle. I have a friend which was given a MKZ by her daughter and son-in-law. I did ride in the back of it and was very disappointed at the amount of road noise in the back seat. To me if you are going to spend as much as what a house cost on a vehicles the creators need to pay particular attention to detail and road noise isn't cutting it.
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- #2613 of 2770
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alman and others
by marsha7
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May 24, 2009 (6:24 pm)
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alman: "about the depreciation discussion which someone said he could buy a year old Ecoboost MKS for $20k, I highly doubt it."...I was one of those who made this comment, and, I think nvbanker (forgive me if I am wrong) agreed with me in the next few posts...if not nvbanker, then someone else...
While I do not have exact numbers, I would still guess that Big 3 cars will depreciate like rocks...if someone buys an MKS ecoboost for $40K, rest assured that if they trade it in next year, they will be lucky to get over $20K trade-in...in 2 years, the used miodel will sell for $20K...be as optimistic as you want, American cars do not, have not, and will not hold value, with very few exceptions...
alirby says that Ford no longer has the stigma of a few years ago...no doubt they are getting better, but to say that their rep of the last few years has been completely removed is, IMO, not true at all...I also agree with speculator that a Ford at $38K may be difficult to sell...just like VW could not sell a Phaeton, Ford may have trouble with a passenger car, same name as an inexpensive sedan of 1985-2005, selling for over $40K after sales tax, ext warranty, and other goodies added on by the dealer...
Maybe the rep of Ford has changed as far as rotten vehicles, but to think that Ford can approach $40K with an ordinary passenger car, well, I think Ford will be quite surprised when folks say they love the car, but will only spend $10K less than the asking price of the Taurus...
Some car brands simply have reputations that have lasted too many years to change...Ford (and Chevrolet) are mainline US brands not known for expensive cars...when they ask $40K for an ordinary passenger vehicle, I think they are heading into dangerous territory...the reviews may be nice, but folks are not going to drop $40K on a Chevy or Ford...at least not in great numbers that they hope...those cars are, simply, too expensive, esp when they WILL drop like rocks after one year out...a 2010 Taurus or MKS at $35-40K new, will be well under $25K, almost new (used) in 2011...
I could be wrong, but I won't be off by much, maybe a thousand or two...Ford and Chevy do not have any cachet, and even the names Caddy and Lincoln are struggling, IMO...
At $35-40K, Ford is making Honda look better by the day...
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- #2614 of 2770
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Re: 2010 MKS Ecoboost pricing [emrnibbles1]
by gregg_vw
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May 25, 2009 (3:22 pm)
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Replying to: emrnibbles1 (May 22, 2009 11:42 am)
But in a 43k loaded Taurus sho and in a 50 k Lincoln. I think I would want better material for these prices than synthetic suede or wood scraps. A 365 hp car that weighs approx 3700-4000 lbs is not environmentally friendly. I would think that the reason for really using synthetic material for suede seats and wood cast offs for panel trim is cost and not because Ford really is environmentally concerned. If it is ,it's only concerned to a point;and that point is is that it is more cost saving using recycled materials over original materials. The car speaks for itself. I don't care about the Polar Bears either. I like large cars with engines that develop a ton of ponies.
Excuse me, but aren't you being at least slightly ridiculous here? No one puts real suede in a modern car. It doesn't wear well and doesn't stand up. The Audi A8 and other luxury cars have used ultrasuede materials or Alcantara for years.You may not care about polar bears and that is your choice. But Ford is going where there is a market, and green, fake or real, is in. Besides, making recycled materials look and feel quality is neither easy nor cheap to do.
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- #2615 of 2770
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Re: alman and others [marsha7]
by alman08
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May 25, 2009 (4:28 pm)
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Replying to: marsha7 (May 24, 2009 6:24 pm)
well, IF one can buy a brand new loaded MKS with Ecoboost for under $40k, that will be good for me too. And lately, I have my eyes on the MKX also, so if MKS with Ecoboost can go for under 40k, hehehehe... MKX for under $30k? 
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- #2616 of 2770
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Re: interesting discussion going on here... [emrnibbles1]
by speculator
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May 25, 2009 (7:41 pm)
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Replying to: emrnibbles1 (May 22, 2009 12:28 pm)
The Taurus Limited with awd is based at around 33 thousand. The car could lose about 2 to 3k off list. The Limited has just about every option that is available on the Taurus SE and SEL as standard though. So what one is basically buying is a fully loaded Taurus SE. Just have a base model and then let the customer pick and choose from an option list of individual items the way he wants his car to be equipped. Now everthing has to come in a package. Just another way to drive up the price of a vehicle above and beyond what a customer may actually need in a vehicle. The 2010 MKS has just about everything that was offered as an option in 09 as standard now. I read on these post that people are asking why the price of the car has risen about 5000 thousand dollars. That's the reason. I agree with what you have written about the Chrysler rear wheel drive models. I also share your view that the Mercedes chassis is a superior chassis as compared to a Volvo chassis. Ford may have the perfect solution to solving its lack of an rwd chassis. Purchase the rwd Chrysler/ Mercedes rwd platform from Chrysler. It's a pretty good platform that Ford may be able to purchased for pennies on the dollar. It certainly could be used to fill in a gap for awhile.
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- #2617 of 2770
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Re: interesting discussion going on here... [speculator]
by akirby
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May 26, 2009 (6:09 am)
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Replying to: speculator (May 25, 2009 7:41 pm)
Just have a base model and then let the customer pick and choose from an option list of individual items the way he wants his car to be equipped. Now everthing has to come in a package. Just another way to drive up the price of a vehicle above and beyond what a customer may actually need in a vehicle.
Gee - that's what Ford used to do and the dealers were complaining that it was too cumbersome and that they needed more packages and less individual options. That makes it easier to order for stock.
You sure don't sound like someone who owns a dealership.
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- #2618 of 2770
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Re: interesting discussion going on here... [akirby]
by esfoad
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May 27, 2009 (10:50 am)
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Replying to: akirby (May 26, 2009 6:09 am)
I agree with akirby but also, the foreign car companies have proven that if the packages have the right "mix" of options there is no need to offer those individually. Makes for less vehicles on the dealer lot and less chance to have to order a vehicle the way you want it. Hey, nothing's perfect.
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- #2619 of 2770
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Re: interesting discussion going on here... [esfoad]
by akirby
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May 27, 2009 (11:58 am)
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Replying to: esfoad (May 27, 2009 10:50 am)
The F150 had something like a million different option combinations a few years ago. It's great if you want to special order but it makes it tough on the dealers to figure out what to stock.
You can question some of the option packaging or standard items but I don't think they can afford to do a la carte options any more.
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- #2620 of 2770
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Re: interesting discussion going on here... [akirby]
by marsha7
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May 27, 2009 (1:02 pm)
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Replying to: akirby (May 26, 2009 6:09 am)
I believe one of the things that did drive up costs was the ability to order any possible combination of options, where some car nut calculated that there were over 10 million (???) possible vehicles that could be made...instead they need to do what the imports do, make 3 or 4 levels of cars, and those are the option packages available...when Honda makes Accord Ex's, they make a bunch, with and without leather...then LX's and so on...you do have option availability, but really quite limited compared to what GM and Ford used to offer, part of what may have accelerated them into the current situation...
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- #2621 of 2770
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Re: interesting discussion going on here... [akirby]
by speculator
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May 27, 2009 (1:19 pm)
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Replying to: akirby (May 23, 2009 2:24 pm)
Lincoln is not going back to rear wheel drive. Ford cancelled the new global rwd platform design for the replacement of the Aussie Falcon. Instead it will use the North American Taurus platform when it introduces the replacement for the present Falcon after 2013. Where can I find the info that Lincoln is going back to rwd? Really I would like to know. The Taurus SHO is not a optional performance package. Insurance companies are classifying it as a new model. That's the info that I get from my connections with Ford. The real reason for offering option packages on vehicles is because of corporate greed. It has nothing to do with what is good for the consumer but what is good for the company. I take it that you are in the car business. Hasn't a client ever complained to you about having to purchase a whole lot of other items that he has no use for but yet in order to get the item he does want he has to buy 4 or 5 other items in a package that could cost 2 or 3 thousand dollars. Ford and the other manufacturers only need to have a base car for each model and the only items needed as standard are ac, power windows ,power door locks power trunk lid realease ,rear window defogger and stereo. If the customer wants something else let him pick and choose from an option list. See in the old days that's the way business was done. Now there is a Taurus SE, SEL and Limited. The only difference is is that the higher the price the car is the more standard equipment is added. This only drives up the price. while the consumer is left with either take it all or it's nothing. The idea is to make a car more affordable. Easier for a family to purchase.
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