- #2567 of 2770
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Another MKS ecoboost review
by cowbell
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May 19, 2009 (10:59 am)
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Over at autofiends.com, they spend most of the time talking about the engine:
http://www.autofiends.com/2009/05/we-drive-2010-lincoln-mks-ecoboost/
Apparently it's pretty powerful. 0 to 60 in 6 seconds.
They also give high marks to the manual shift option, saying it is very quick to respond.
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- #2568 of 2770
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Re: MKS EB [ak103]
by brucelinc
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May 20, 2009 (4:43 am)
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Replying to: ak103 (May 17, 2009 7:18 am)
As appearance packages go, the MKS version is reasonably tasteful. I have not seen it in person but the pictures seem to indicate a strange gap along the rocker panel. The chrome from that area is gone but then they stuck a piece of chrome along the spoiler. The chrome MK and the red S doesn't do anything for me either. The interior loses the wood and goes with metal - to each his own.
The kicker is that the price for the appearance package is $2,995, according to the Lincoln site. Much of that must be for the chrome wheels but it seems a bit steep. The cars that were driven by the press at Ford's proving grounds had the appearance package but the order guide says delayed availability. It is not my cup of tea but it certainly beats gold trim and vinyl tops in the taste department.
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- #2569 of 2770
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Re: 2010 MKS Ecoboost pricing [grega]
by speculator
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May 20, 2009 (10:17 am)
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Replying to: grega (May 17, 2009 6:29 pm)
I own a Ford dealership as well as a LM dealership. I can tell you that at least 35-36 k for a Ford sedan even an SHO is more than what the market segment that Ford runs in is willing to spend on this type of car. Remember the Mercury Marauder. By the way I have seen the car. The style is much better than what is offered on the present version. But still such a higher premium for a Ford Taurus performance sedan that doesn't have a long reputation as being a performance car is what will limit its sales. Otherwise, its not a Mustang that has a performance pedigree. Taurus doesn't have that panache. It's a name that is associated with a family sedan. Chrysler used the revived the 300 , Challenger and Charger nameplates to revive their performance sedans. All are names associated with performance. My Family has been in the auto business for over 60 years. I think that I know what is happening to the business. So before you start to rant about what I know which is more than what you know, think before writing
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- #2570 of 2770
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Re: 2010 MKS Ecoboost pricing [speculator]
by akirby
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May 20, 2009 (11:20 am)
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Replying to: speculator (May 20, 2009 10:17 am)
You're missing 2 important facts:
1 - this Ford sedan has styling, performance and amenities unlike ANY previous Ford sedan. It runs circles around the Marauder in every category. And Ford quality is at an all-time high and competitive. Predicting sales based on previous Fords and previous Ford quality isn't valid in this case.
2 - the Taurus SHO has a cult following similar to the Mustang 5.0 crowd.
Forgot one - 3: just because something sells or doesn't sell in YOUR area doesn't mean it will be that way across the country.
I bet they sell every SHO they can make without big rebates.
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- #2571 of 2770
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Re: 2010 MKS Ecoboost pricing [speculator]
by gregg_vw
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May 20, 2009 (11:24 am)
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Replying to: speculator (May 20, 2009 10:17 am)
The best defense is a good offense?? 
You may be right, but I do have another point of view on this one. Ford does have a track record of occasionally being able to successfully market more expensive models than their usual fleet. SHO also has cache, in spite of the fact that the first one's sales were severely limited by offering only a manual transmission, and then the second generation SHO offered ONLY an automatic with an expensive but still anemic V8.
The Marauder was a failure anyone could have seen coming. The idea was great, but putting the package on a very long-in-the-tooth Grand Marquis (which was never designed to be sporty), and adding only a 300 hp engine to that big and relatively heavy sedan, and buckets and a console that looked very cobbled together was stupid. Unlike the 2010 Taurus, this ersatz Marauder did not look much different from any police car or old lady's ride, did not go all that fast compared to other hot sedans, and really was overpriced for what it offered. At least someone woke up before they also issued to Marauder convertible concept. The idea of taking an old, out of style body and interior, and engineering it into a convertible (rather than working on a new model) was silly, and would have been a wasteful use of limited resources.
The SHO actually has me interested in looking at a big car again. You may be right, as I said, but I predict it will be a success, selling in the limited numbers Ford projects, to people who would not normally buy just any big Ford sedan.
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- #2572 of 2770
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Re: 2010 MKS Ecoboost pricing [grega]
by speculator
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May 20, 2009 (11:34 am)
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Replying to: grega (May 17, 2009 6:29 pm)
Since these are new vehicles , prove what their resale value will be in two years. What will I soon see? Right now Ford is barely hanging on. The only reason is because of incentives and dealer markdowns off list above what is customary for a normal economy. Don't forget that Ford really needs to unload Volvo in order to have more cash in reserve to meet obligations. I expect that if the economy doesn't turn around by November the Ford's new model year models will also be also be offered with incentives and deep dealer markdowns. All of these incentives and markdowns have an impact on resale value of these vehicles along with popularity. The MKS sold a total of 1178 models last month. Not very popular even with all of the incentives being offered. The sales for May could be less than 1000 units of the MKS. Chrysler dealers that are being liquidated are selling new inventory at 1 -2 year depreciation value. Right now a used 2 year old Chrysler is a very good bargain. The same could happen to Ford. Ford is only marginally better off than the other two. The G yesterday offered Ford the same deal it has given to GM and Chrysler if it doesn't have the funds to meet the 2016 cafe standards. Ford would be better of going into Ch 11 now while all are in the same circumstance. Ford got the short end of the stick with the new 2016 standards.
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- #2573 of 2770
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Re: 2010 MKS Ecoboost pricing [akirby]
by speculator
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May 20, 2009 (2:17 pm)
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Replying to: akirby (May 20, 2009 11:20 am)
Have you seen the resale value of a used Ford Taurus SHO? Know anyone who will pay a premium for a used SHO? Ford cancelled the SHO because of poor sales. It was never a great seller. The demand for the car wasn't there. Only a limited # of enthusiast purchased one. It never appealed to the traditional Taurus buyer. That's why it has a cult following. Cults tend to be small and selective. After all of the cult members purchase their SHO , how will Ford justify producing a 35-36k Taurus SHO that will never generate the number of sales required to keep it in existence for more than a year or two? What has changed in the market place that justifies this car's existence? If anything the introduction of this type of vehicle for Ford at this time is haphazard. I remember reading in all of the auto mags that the prior SHO was something above a standard Taurus. I am sure that the auto mags will write the same about this version. Will all this praise generate into sustainable sales? It didn't the first time. Chicago has the second or third highest # of Ford sales in the country. If any Ford doesn't sell in one of their largest markets than why produce it. The Taurus is a family sedan. That's it base. Stick with success.
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- #2574 of 2770
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akirby
by marsha7
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May 20, 2009 (3:50 pm)
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Not to take sides against you, akirby, (  ), but with my limited knowledge, I would tend to agree with speculator...I don't know if s/he really is a dealer or not, but the Taurus name, for many years, implied family sedan...yeah, the SHO was higher performance, but did not stand out, IMO, like a Mustang GT or Camaro SS...
The new Taurus is nice...but to be a large seller it must sell at a popular price point, and the SHO probably needs to be a little higher in price...not to denigrate Ford, but the Ford brand does not convey luxury, just a (hopefully) reliable car...maybe the MKS can pull it off, but I think it was nvbanker who agreed with me awhile ago, that a one year old decked out MKS will probably sell for much less than a new Taurus, so one gets ecoboost and all that luxury for under $20,000.00
It is a rare Big 3 car that holds its value, and when the trade-ins come in, MKS will drop like Impalas and Crown Vics..."like a rock"...
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- #2575 of 2770
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Ok....
by akirby
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May 20, 2009 (5:14 pm)
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If I'm wrong I'll admit it. But this Taurus is so much better than any previous Taurus I don't see how you can even compare the two. This thing has better performance (except maybe in cornering) and better materials, styling and way more amenities than any Lincoln prior to the MKS. And with Ford cutting back on production volumes to match demand and the change in the public's perception of Ford overall, I just don't think you can compare this to anything in the past.
I predict Taurus sales will double what they are right now by the end of the year and SHOs will be selling with minimal discounts and rebates.
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- #2576 of 2770
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Re: Ok.... [akirby]
by speculator
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May 20, 2009 (6:42 pm)
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Replying to: akirby (May 20, 2009 5:14 pm)
I never wrote that the Taurus is a bad design. I just don't believe that a Ford should be at the price of a BMW. Albeit a small Bimmer.Actually the base of the 2010 Taurus SHO is 37,995 dollars . It's a Ford, not a Bimmer or Audi. Ford averaged about 10k SHO units sold per year between 89 and 99 when the last SHO was produced with the highest sales between 89 and 95 and the most of the sales between 89 and 99 had a manual transmission. The ten year average is not huge a compared to the average sale # of the base Taurus during these years. At this price the car is not going to be a high seller. In fact the price is near the MKS category. Remember the Volkswagen Phaeton. Priced too high for a Volkswagen The perception of VW is that it sells low to mid priced vehicles. The public perception of Ford is that it produces family sedans at a reasonable price. Heck , the Flex is priced too high. Anyway none of this will matter . The new cafe standards will probably doom these type of cars for the Ford division. The President of Volkswagen of America said on CNBC that the manufacturers will have to start planning now to meet the 2016 cafe standards. I tend to believe him. How will GM and Chrysler do that while in bankruptcy. Simple ,with G funds. Ford objected to the new standards mandated by the President fearing that it doesn't have the funds to accommodate the new standards that soon. The G offered Ford the same deal that it offered GM and Chrysler if it finds itself short on funds. It would be willing to put Ford into a prepackaged Ch11 as it is doing with Chrysler and soon to be GM and provide funds for fuel and enviormental standards. Ford has agreed with the offer. The Government is now in the auto business.
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