- #2291 of 2770
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Re: Ecoboost MKS [speculator]
by emrnibbles1
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Jan 21, 2009 (1:13 pm)
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Replying to: speculator (Jan 19, 2009 11:22 am)
I guess this is another one of Ford's better is cheaper ideas. Most Amricans are willing to purchase knock offs of better cars. Another thing, why purchase an MKS built on a modified outdated Volvo S80 platform when for about the same price one could purcase a S80 with a new platform?
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- #2292 of 2770
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Re: Ecoboost MKS [emrnibbles1]
by gregg_vw
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Jan 21, 2009 (1:21 pm)
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Replying to: emrnibbles1 (Jan 21, 2009 1:13 pm)
The Volvo S80 is a sales bomb, looking too anonymous and too much like the previous generation. It does not have nearly the room of the MKS and it costs a boatload more money to get it similarly equipped. I haven't seen any reports that show the current S80 architecture superior to the MKS architecture. If you look at how the cars are built, you can see that Ford heavily modified the Volvo base. Otherwise it wouldn't be as tall and as roomy. It's akin to the changes Ford made on the Mazda6 chassis...so improved that Mazda adopted Ford's modifications for its 2009 6.
Again, Ford deserves a spanking (the 500 styling was just so incredibly dumb), but the things they do right need to be acknowledged. I am no fan of the fat, tall MKS with too long overhangs, but it sure can hold its own against the S80, and most other FWD based large sedans.
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- #2293 of 2770
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Re: Ecoboost MKS [gregg_vw]
by emrnibbles1
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Jan 21, 2009 (2:25 pm)
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Replying to: gregg_vw (Jan 21, 2009 1:21 pm)
How much more is the Volvo? About 5 or 6 thousand dollars. I am no fan of Volvo. I wouldn't accept one if one were given to me. I was just trying to say Why MKS and not Volvo? The new Volvo platform is about 15% stiffer than it predecessor. What fwd vehicles can it hold its own against? The DTS has less torque steer as does the old Cadillac SLS and STS. Also these vehicles have a more sophisticated suspension and steering systems.Components of their suspension systems and steering were adapted from the Corvette. I realize that the DTS has a higher list as did the old SLS and STS. Could the MKS hold its own against Audi that is say priced within 5 or 6 thousand dollars of the MKS? If a person is hunting in this price range then 5 or 6 thousand more for a vehicle shouldn't matter.The Japanese cars priced within this range still have better interiors and more controlled rides over uneven pavement. I drove my neighbors MKS over the cobblestone s that line the street where I live and the MKS shimmied and bounced much more than my cousins Acura RL. I thought that RL was a sub par vehicle for the price that he payed for it. And Infiniti has all but eliminated torque steer in its fwd models. The new Mazda's platform is 6 inches longer and the is about 2 inches wider also has more rigidity than the previous 6 on which the Fusion is based.
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- #2294 of 2770
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Re: Ecoboost MKS [emrnibbles1]
by akirby
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Jan 21, 2009 (2:40 pm)
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Replying to: emrnibbles1 (Jan 21, 2009 2:25 pm)
So to paraphrase.....MKS sucks, EVERYTHING else is way better. And the Fusion sucks and EVERYTHING else is way better. Ok, we got it.
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- #2295 of 2770
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by savetheland
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Jan 21, 2009 (5:20 pm)
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"The new Mazda's platform is 6 inches longer and the is about 2 inches wider also has more rigidity than the previous 6 on which the Fusion is based"
Fusion also is 6 inches longer and 2 inches wider than Mazda6. SO what is the point?
Regarding Mullaly - they still change strategy for Lincoln very often and what is Merucry for is not clear at all - it is total mistery at this point. BTW BMW is not a niche car player - they sell cars by millions all over the world.
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- #2296 of 2770
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Re: [savetheland]
by akirby
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Jan 21, 2009 (5:41 pm)
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Replying to: savetheland (Jan 21, 2009 5:20 pm)
Ford can't survive at BMW's U.S. volumes. Lincoln has a strategy now, but it didn't 2 years ago. Global RWD platform was a key part of that strategy that had to be put on hold. They know what they WANT to do, they just can't afford to do it all right now.
Mercury was put on hold for the same reason - to focus on Ford first, Lincoln second. It's #3 on the priority list, and will stay there as long as is necessary. Look at all the new Ford products released in 2008/2009 and you'll see where Ford is spending their money. Revised F150, mustang, escape and focus. All new Flex, MKS, MKT. Heavily revised Fusion/Milan/MKZ and Taurus. New Ecoboost 3.5L engine, new 2.5L, 3.0L and 2.5L Hybrid powertrains with best in class fuel economy.
Add in plans for 2010 including the Fiesta, Euro Focus, Transit and Transit connect plus new engines for mustang and F150 and an all new unibody Explorer and anyone can see that Ford is investing heavily in it's CORE brand - the one that will bring profitability and market share. THEN they can afford to spend more on Lincoln and finally Mercury.
You think this is a lack of focus because they're ignoring Mercury and to some degree Lincoln. I say it's just the opposite - for the first time in a long time Ford has a CLEAR strategy for success and is executing it as well as can be expected.
Just because they're not building what YOU want them to build doesn't mean they're failing. Try to see the big picture for once.
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- #2297 of 2770
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Re: Ecoboost MKS [emrnibbles1]
by kenb757
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Jan 22, 2009 (8:39 am)
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Replying to: emrnibbles1 (Jan 21, 2009 2:25 pm)
Well said emrnibbles1. I really wanted an MKS, but its ride and refinement was so un-Lincolnlike that I couldn't see leaving the DTS/Lucerne platform for it. The only car Lincoln has that appeals to me in ride and refinement is the old Town Car. If and when Ford updates the TC, I'll look at Lincoln again. Unless, of course, Lincoln wants to spend some money making the MKS ride better than a Taurus.
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- #2298 of 2770
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Re: Ecoboost MKS [kenb757]
by gregg_vw
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Jan 22, 2009 (10:26 am)
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Replying to: kenb757 (Jan 22, 2009 8:39 am)
Certainly there are different definitions of refinement. It is really personal preference. Sometimes it comes back down to the guys who need their hemorhroids treated very gently and some just prefer the "jet smooth" ride of the traditional big American sedan. The Town Car for me is somewhat crude...while the ride can be smooth, the chassis is shuddery-juddery over rough pavement, and bump-stop suspension hits (with potholes and such) sound anything but quality to me. To each his own.
However, it is true that old man cars like the Town Car, DTS, Lucerne lose more sales every year. Younger audiences tend to prefer a different feel in their driving machines. It's funny, because the MKS has been criticized in the press for leaning too far toward the comfort-wallowy end of the spectrum. It is definitely a compromise, a bridge vehicle if you will, to move Lincoln away from old man car company, without making a huge leap away. As a compromise, it may not fill the bill for some traditional buyers as well as for some who prefer not to drive as if their vehicle will tip unless they crawl through every sharp corner.
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- #2299 of 2770
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Re: Ecoboost MKS [kenb757]
by akirby
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Jan 22, 2009 (10:28 am)
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Replying to: kenb757 (Jan 22, 2009 8:39 am)
Not riding like a TC or DTS is actually a plus to most drivers.
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- #2300 of 2770
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Re: Ecoboost MKS [gregg_vw]
by kenb757
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Jan 23, 2009 (8:24 am)
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Replying to: gregg_vw (Jan 22, 2009 10:26 am)
The answer would be to install an air suspension system adjustable to each driver's preference like the last Continental or the Magnetic Ride Control system as installed in the DTS Performance version and Lucerne Super. Lincoln will also have to remedy the torque steer in the MKS and the visibly vibrating steering wheel when idling which is worse than that in the newly-shrunken fwd 1985 deVille.
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