- #2251 of 2769
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Re: Real Facts about Linciln MKS [speculator]
by akirby
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Dec 24, 2008 (11:21 am)
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Replying to: speculator (Dec 24, 2008 8:58 am)
If they found a way to mount the engine longitunally on these vehicles why couldn't Ford?
Because it requires a totally different front clip design and different transmission/transaxle setup. The D3 platform was already setup for AWD and could easily be modified to handle 340 hp. If they were going to the trouble of changing the engine orientation they might as well just make a new RWD platform.
Why doesn't Lincoln have the same sophisticated awd system as Acura or for that matter Audi? And It doesn't matter if the MKS is a larger car. It's not that hard to modify a system for other use. Why not have a full time awd option?
Ford's AWD system is not the same as the Volvo system. Ford's system can transfer up to 100% of the torque to the rear wheels by computer based on throttle and steering inputs BEFORE any slip occurs. This is a big advantage over the Volvo Haldex system especially in performance driving. I'm not saying it's better than Audi's system - quattro is pretty sophisticated - but it's no slouch either.
And the MKS does have a full time AWD system - it operates all the time. If you're talking about being able to lock the torque split front and rear then that's 4WD and you don't need that on a luxury sedan.
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- #2252 of 2769
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Re: Real Facts about Linciln MKS [emrnibbles1]
by akirby
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Dec 24, 2008 (11:30 am)
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Replying to: emrnibbles1 (Dec 24, 2008 10:23 am)
What does this car do that is better than others in its price range? What will make me purchase this vehicle over a Audi or DTS. The DTS has less torque steer. Has a engine with more horse power and the DTS is slightly more expensive than this car and still has higher sales. Is available with all of the equipment except for Nsync that is touted as standard on the MKS.
Does the DTS have 340 hp? AWD? Keyless start? Securicode keyless entry? Manumatic shifting? The DTS has less than 300 hp and gets 15/23. The Ecoboost MKS will have at least 340 hp with AWD and get better FE than the NA 3.7L model which is already best in class at 17/24. And the MKS has to handle better.
And you do know that a lot of the DTS sales are fleet - right?
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- #2253 of 2769
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Re: Real Facts about Linciln MKS [akirby]
by vic10
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Dec 26, 2008 (9:13 am)
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Replying to: akirby (Dec 24, 2008 11:30 am)
Are we sure we're talking apples vs apples? 340 hp standard? AWD standard? Keyless start standard? Etc. Don't believe so. With those items, you might be comparing the MKS to the DTS Performance. Granted, not yet 340hp. But coming from a 300C with 345hp, I can tell you my new DTS Performance Northstar revs quicker and is more responsive above 60 mph than the Hemi was, even lacking the 50 hp and the 5-speed tranny. And as for handling, I don't believe Ford has anything to match the magnetic ride control that's in the DTS Performance. One BIG negative for the MKS in my opinion is the Microsoft system. Being an owner of a computer with Microsoft's Vista operating system I most definitely would NOT want that level of unreliability in a car doing 70mph down the highway.
I find it hard to believe that many people who are trying to decide between the Lincoln and the Caddy are going to be comparing individual features. A lot is image. And a lot is style. I've always considered the Lincoln a luxury car. But I've always wanted a Cadillac. The MKS looks great from the front, ho-hum from the back, and like about 5 other (cheaper) cars from the side. The interior looks to be the size of a STS (and there's a car you probably wouldn't want to put the MKS up against feature for feature) which is to say confining. And though at first glance the MKS interior looks great, on closer examination it doesn't look quite as lux, though it is an interesting contrast: 2009 exterior, 1970 interior. I think the car was a nice first effort. But personally I'm a bit disappointed in the overall package.
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- #2254 of 2769
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Re: Real Facts about Linciln MKS [vic10]
by akirby
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Dec 26, 2008 (6:46 pm)
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Replying to: vic10 (Dec 26, 2008 9:13 am)
I didn't see the reference to "standard on the MKS" - my mistake.
As for Sync - it's not Vista and it doesn't control the car. I hate Microsoft as much as you do, but if there was no sticker and nobody told you then you wouldn't know it was MS. It works great outside of some early USB hardware problems and phone incompatibilities (neither of which was the software's fault).
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- #2255 of 2769
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Re: Real Facts about Linciln MKS [akirby]
by speculator
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Dec 27, 2008 (6:10 pm)
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Replying to: akirby (Dec 24, 2008 11:21 am)
You do if trying to produce a variant to be a sport sedan or performance sedan based on a fwd platform. AWD or fulltime all wheel drive is just a matter of terms. Right now the system doesn't offer any type of enhancements that would actually push the car through twisting curbs. It's is more designed to keep the car from slipping because of road conditions. And the awd system is biased towards the front wheels hence the need for an 4wd option.
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- #2256 of 2769
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Re: Real Facts about Linciln MKS [speculator]
by akirby
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Dec 28, 2008 (9:08 am)
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Replying to: speculator (Dec 27, 2008 6:10 pm)
Ford's AWD system will send power to the rear BEFORE slip occurs in order to provide better performance and reduce the possibility of slip occuring. It uses steering angle and throttle inputs - e.g. if you're going into a curve and accelerating it will send power to the rear. This does help handling even in dry conditions. Ford's system can electronically send 100%of the power to the rear wheels. This is NOT just an anti-slip system.
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- #2257 of 2769
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Re: Real Facts about Linciln MKS [akirby]
by speculator
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Dec 28, 2008 (10:24 am)
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Replying to: akirby (Dec 28, 2008 9:08 am)
It still uses a Haldex torque conveter. Audi also uses a Haldex on its transverse mounted engine vehicles for the awd option on these models. But on its premiere sedans with its permanent awd system option it it uses a Torsen differential. The torque bias is 40/ 60 with 40 % of the torque to the front wheels and 60% to the rear. Also, these models have an electronic differential lock to break the engine as well as to limit individual wheel slip. Its not possible to use a Torsen differential on a transverse mounted engine. Lincoln doesn't offer this type of performance option because of its basic Volvo platform design.
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- #2258 of 2769
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Re: Real Facts about Linciln MKS [speculator]
by akirby
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Dec 29, 2008 (10:35 am)
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Replying to: speculator (Dec 28, 2008 10:24 am)
I understand that it's not the same as Audi's quattro system. But it does transfer torque before slip is detected to enhance performance which is more than the standard Volvo Haldex system did. And it can electronically transfer 100% of the torque when needed.
The AWD A6 is a lot more expensive than an AWD MKS, even though it's smaller.
Again - Ford is getting the most out of the platform they had. They've already updated the front clip to handle more torque, redone the rear suspension which also made it to the flex and updated the AWD system. It's just not cost effective to do anything else when they need a GRWD platform anyway.
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- #2259 of 2769
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Re: Real Facts about Linciln MKS [akirby]
by speculator
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Dec 29, 2008 (11:30 am)
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Replying to: akirby (Dec 29, 2008 10:35 am)
I am not implying that this is a bad awd system. But I believe that it is not as modern as say the xwd system that is used on SAAB. I believe that that system was partly engineered by Haldex and is licensed only for use by SAAB. But that doesn't mean that Ford couldn't develop a system that is similar. Ford could keep the vehicles base price below 40 K. But offer the system as a sport package with the 340 hp engine. Many of the options on this car are part of packages. The most expensive is around 5500 dollars. Have a sport package with better bucket seats that offer more support , give it a little more of a firmer suspension, offer exterior and interior colors limited to the sport package, maybe even give it ground effects modified to fit the car's style. If Lincoln is to survive its going to have to figure a way to draw the younger crowd. This would be a start since Lincoln doesn't offer a sporty rwd car. I know Lincoln had the LS that was suppose to draw in the affluent young. For a while it did . But Ford never did anything to the car to keep it relevant. It allowed The CTS to steal the thunder.
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- #2260 of 2769
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Re: Real Facts about Linciln MKS [speculator]
by akirby
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Dec 29, 2008 (12:03 pm)
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Replying to: speculator (Dec 29, 2008 11:30 am)
Shouldn't you wait and see what the Ecoboost version has? It may come with a firmer suspension and seats with more bolstering AND 75 more hp. Isn't that what you're asking for?
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