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#2171 of 2770 Re: Just wondering why? [akirby] by speculator Oct 08, 2008 (4:11 pm)
Replying to: akirby (Sep 27, 2008 7:33 pm) I was reading some of your post in the forum Where is Ford Taking Lincoln and also in this forum. In both forums you use the term, "my Ford connections," this term gives people the idea that you have a connection with Ford. Do you or don't you.? If by that term you mean that you have a friend who works for Ford ,make it clear. Also, The Mustang that is most used for racing by both professionals and novices has an IRS usually designed by Roush. Some dealers sell these models to those that order them. This models can be driven in all fifty states by the average motorist. This means that the vehicles are considered to be standard street vehicles that some race circuits require.
#2172 of 2770 Re: Just wondering why? [nvbanker] by speculator Oct 08, 2008 (5:38 pm)
Replying to: nvbanker (Sep 30, 2008 9:51 am) The LS 430 is obsolete and it still is a better made car than the MKS which is a new design. How well will the MKS compare to the LS460? Replies to this message: carolinabob (Oct 09, 2008 11:13 am) nvbanker (Oct 13, 2008 5:48 pm)
#2173 of 2770 Re: MKS vs. Genesis vs. Azera [carolinabob] by speculator Oct 08, 2008 (6:10 pm)
Replying to: carolinabob (Oct 07, 2008 11:54 am) Why compare the wood trim on the MKS to the leather that is used in the Genesis? Replies to this message: carolinabob (Oct 09, 2008 11:03 am)
#2174 of 2770 Top Speed video review of the MKS by theman123 Oct 08, 2008 (9:13 pm)
I found this Video review by Top Speed on You Tube. What do you all think ?   Top Speed Review of the 2009 Lincoln MKS
#2175 of 2770 Re: MKS production reduction [speculator] by datagen Oct 08, 2008 (9:19 pm)
Replying to: speculator (Oct 08, 2008 2:59 pm) Well not defending but just speculating here. Your statement may explain a few things. First I will say that the MKS will not outsell the BMW and DTS for some time if ever. It is funny that even in this fast pace world things take time. It takes time for people to warm up to something new and different from a manufacturer who has had marketing and operational issues. It is funny that many of the Ford employees I talked with were impress with the MKS commercials. Many said that it was something that Ford should have been doing for sometime. When you have a product better than the marketing force that pushes the product, Dearborn you have a problem.   With the current economic situation and with it to be going on for sometimes to come, all bets are off. Sales projections, modification projects, and other growth elements are on hold. Your statement tells me that the production cut backs explains why in the Detroit area a dealer only has a few MKS on the lots is any at all. Numbers are all over the chart now and nothing can be seen. This situation may be for sometime (5-6 years) to come. To sun it up, there was an article in the Sunday Detroit Free Press about the Ford Flex. The headline said “The Flex, great vehicle bad timing.” Replies to this message: speculator (Oct 08, 2008 11:09 pm) datagen (Oct 09, 2008 1:46 am)
#2176 of 2770 Re: MKS production reduction [datagen] by speculator Oct 08, 2008 (11:09 pm)
Replying to: datagen (Oct 08, 2008 9:19 pm) Then again why is it that a car with a base price that is lower than a BMW5 or an obsolete DTS not able to outsell these models? In your post you state that it may never outsell he Bimmer or DTS. Why is that? I believe it is because the segment of purchasers for these type of autos have a perception that a car that is suppose to be a competitor to the DTS or Bimmer that has a cheaper price must be cheaply made for this type of market. Otherwise, price equals quality. If the car is being positioned to compete with the Buick Lucerne, then will it outsell the Buick? If not, then the average purchaser in this market segment is not convinced that the Lincoln is as good as its Buick counterpart. Its going to take more then commercials to convince the market segment that this car is aimed at that the car has better or equal value as its competition. Even if Major Tom or ground control tells them it is. It has to do with consumer experiences. The consumer has always believed that GM products are superior to Ford products in quality and that Ford products are superior to Chrysler products and that foreign products are superior to all three. Its hard to change that perception. Tell me why continue to manufacture the Taurus X and the Flex . They both compete with each other. From my experience with potential buyers the style of the Flex is either love or hate. Maybe that is why the Taurus X is still being produced. Again the Torrence Ave plant in Chicago is diminishing production for these autos along with the Taurus and Sable . As far as the economy, I believe what is the real cause of all of the mess is the cost of energy. All caused by rabid speculation without regard to the well being of the whole economy. There was never a reason for oil to hit 100 dollars a barrel let alone 147 dollars. The price for a barrel should have never been higher than 75 to 80 dollars.There was never a shortage of product. Its just that a lot of speculators found a loop hole in the law and decided to use it for their advantage. I am happy to say I was not one of them. Whomever becomes president I hope will curtail this type of greed with a return to prior laws that regulated these actions. Replies to this message: datagen (Oct 09, 2008 1:46 am)
#2177 of 2770 by datagen Oct 09, 2008 (1:44 am)
Your comments are well founded on the energy situation. I believe there were a number of factors that when it all came together became the perfect storm for a catastrophe. Granted the one element in all of these factors was greed and it will haunt us for some time to come.   You seem bent on instant success of failure on a product. True it has happened in the past but the pattern again is time. If the MKS outsells the others fine, but if it does, it won’t be this years or next. Maybe on it’s third years and forward. If the marketing teams are on the ball, they should have new commercials that point out the advantages of the MKS over its competitors. The last time I checked, Consumer Reports still had not fully tested the car yet. My purchase of the MKS is based upon my history with Ford and Lincolns. You are right the Flex is a vehicle you got to love or hate. I guess the experts got together and figured out that if they can make money from the ones who love it, then they may get the others over in time. I could see a fleet of taxi flex in a large city then maybe it will grow from there, who knows what those guys were thinking at the time.   The Taurus X may be the teaser car that they plan to slowly bring down to get people to move over to the Flex. Price and quality mean different thing to different people. The quality of the MKS has not yet been proven at this stage, so the numbers aren’t there. Throw in this economic situation and your guess (point of the quality) is just as good as anyone’s. Ford had proven to the critics that they could make a luxury vehicle (the LS) cheaper. The MKS has received many favorable comments, though not perfect; it may make it mark as well. Personally I like having a quality cheaper vehicle that few others have. The MKZ started out as the Zephyr and it took some time for that market to grow and in truth it was the foundation for the MKS and MKR concept. So for now lets give it time and see what happens. As far as president, I believe anyone who would want the job in this mess needs their head examined. Replies to this message: gregg_vw (Oct 09, 2008 5:22 am)
#2178 of 2770 Re: MKS production reduction [speculator] by datagen Oct 09, 2008 (1:46 am)
Replying to: speculator (Oct 08, 2008 11:09 pm) Your comments are well founded on the energy situation. I believe there were a number of factors that when it all came together became the perfect storm for a catastrophe. Granted the one element in all of these factors was greed and it will haunt us for some time to come.    You seem bent on instant success of failure on a product. True it has happened in the past but the pattern again is time. If the MKS outsells the others fine, but if it does, it won’t be this years or next. Maybe on it’s third years and forward. If the marketing teams are on the ball, they should have new commercials that point out the advantages of the MKS over its competitors. The last time I checked, Consumer Reports still had not fully tested the car yet. My purchase of the MKS is based upon my history with Ford and Lincolns. You are right the Flex is a vehicle you got to love or hate. I guess the experts got together and figured out that if they can make money from the ones who love it, then they may get the others over in time. I could see a fleet of taxi flex in a large city then maybe it will grow from there, who knows what those guys were thinking at the time.    The Taurus X may be the teaser car that they plan to slowly bring down to get people to move over to the Flex. Price and quality mean different thing to different people. The quality of the MKS has not yet been proven at this stage, so the numbers aren’t there. Throw in this economic situation and your guess (point of the quality) is just as good as anyone’s. Ford had proven to the critics that they could make a luxury vehicle (the LS) cheaper. The MKS has received many favorable comments, though not perfect; it may make it mark as well. Personally I like having a quality cheaper vehicle that few others have. The MKZ started out as the Zephyr and it took some time for that market to grow and in truth it was the foundation for the MKS and MKR concept. So for now lets give it time and see what happens. As far as president, I believe anyone who would want the job in this mess needs their head examined.
#2179 of 2770 Re: Ford troubles. [speculator] by akirby Oct 09, 2008 (5:21 am)
Replying to: speculator (Oct 08, 2008 3:20 pm) The Navigator will eventually be replaced by the MKT. The Navigator will be discontinued by the start of 2010. I expect a certain person to post a reply that counters this. Nevertheless it is true. The new rear wheel drive platform for Lincoln and another large Ford sedan is also to be discontinued for the American market. Ford is going fwd for all of its domestic models except for the Mustang if it survives. Wishfull hopes will not change that. Look for the platform for the next gen Mustang to be smaller than the present one.   And your source for this is what? Motor Trend and Rumor Mills? Or do you have inside knowledge? I don't but I do know that you can't trust a lot of what's being reported because most of it is speculation (pun intended) based on limited comments from company executives that are being misintepreted.   As for me - my Ford sources are current and former Ford employees on several websites - public and private. I don't know why I have to explain that to you or what difference it makes, but if it makes you feel better......   People buy BMWs for 2 reasons - prestige and performance, in that order. The MKS has neither. It's a luxury sedan and Lincoln is still trying to build prestige. And people don't buy these types of cars based on price.   Here's the OTHER side to your sales coin: the MKS which has only been available for a couple of months, outsold the Lexus GS, Audi A6, Infiniti M35/45, Cadillac CTS and Jag XF. Please explain that.
#2180 of 2770 Re: [datagen] by gregg_vw Oct 09, 2008 (5:22 am)
Replying to: datagen (Oct 09, 2008 1:44 am) The Taurus X may be the teaser car that they plan to slowly bring down to get people to move over to the Flex.   You give Ford too much credit, The Taurus X is the Freestyle with a different grill and upgraded engine. Ford thought the conservative station wagon crossover would sell, and when it didn't thought giving it a more distinctive grill and a bit more power would juice sales. It was not one of their better ideas.   They then scrambled to get the Flex to market. Meanwhile, the X is still a very new design and it would be dumb to just dump it without giving it some more time for additional sales. And of course the Flex, a polarizing design that the X should have had (had Ford had any real thinking people in charge), arrived just at the wrong time. Besides, Ford is hardly the only company that has several crossovers for sale in the same showroom.   This mishmash within the American Ford brands, Lincoln included, is just ludicrous, but again hardly a Ford exclusive. Meanwhile the more integrated and better designed European Fords are still at least two years away. I wouldn't bet on the survical of an independent Ford--or the Lincoln brand at all.

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