Last post on Nov 25, 2013 at 2:27 PM
You are in the Lincoln MKS
What is this discussion about?
Lincoln MKS, Sedan
#2108 of 2980 Re: [emrnibbles1]
Sep 15, 2008 (6:38 pm)
Lincoln SHOULD be building cars that have performance but i know that they cant do that currently because they dont have a platform ready. What I was pointing out that although lincoln cant directly compete with caddy, Benz, BMW, Infinity, and Lexus right now the still shouldnt be saying that they are targeting Buick, who looked at as even more un-luxurious in most buyers eyes than Lincoln is. Just equip the MKS with a DI 3.7 with 300-310HP standard ( with the option of a more sport oriented suspension), give the 2010 MKZ a 3.7 without direct injection that produces 273 and 3.7 DI as an option. In about 6 months time that shouldnt be too much to ask for as the ecoboost WITH direct injection will be arriving so ford can then DI the 3.7's
Sep 16, 2008 (4:18 am)
In this now global financial crisis, Lincoln will not catch a break. Totally wrong time to be trying to get back into the luxury market. The dummies at Ford earlier this decade were just as ignorant of their real operations and how business works long-term as those at Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, AIG, Freddie, Fannie,, etc., etc. And they had no idea as well how far-reaching and devastating their more-guts-than-brains approach would be. Payment for their greed and short-sightedness is far from over. Lincoln's foray back into luxury with the MKS is pretty pathetic on the face of it. But what else could they do?
#2110 of 2980 Re: [gregg_vw]
Sep 16, 2008 (4:45 am)
I think pathetic is a little harsh. Yes, the platform is lacking but I applaud them for finally getting competitive luxury features and even leapfrogging the competition for a change. The only thing lacking in the interior is a new gauge cluster and some wood for the center stack.
I also give them credit for the interior changes for the 2010 MKZ - pretty significant for a mid cycle refresh.
But I agree that it will take them years to get out of the hole the company dug for them a few years ago when they were treated like red-headed stepchildren.
#2111 of 2980 Re: Lincoln perception problem [speculator]
Sep 16, 2008 (4:50 am)
There is no way Ford is putting projects on hold for 2-4 years. I'm sure they are accelerating fuel economy related projects and delaying others due to limited resources but I don't think it's that drastic or that long.
The 4 cylinder ecoboost is way behind the 3.5L. I think the best case is we see the I4 EB late next year following the 3.5L next spring/summer, if they can pull it up that far. Don't forget the 3.5L EB is not just for cars - the F150 will also be using it and that IS a fuel economy project.
#2112 of 2980 Re: [akirby]
Sep 16, 2008 (5:03 am)
If I am not mistaken, I believe the wood package cover the center stack also as an option.
#2113 of 2980 Re: [datagen]
Sep 16, 2008 (5:31 am)
That's what I was hoping, too, but it doesn't. At least not that I've seen anywhere. I don't understand why not - they could certainly recover the cost by making it an option.
Sep 16, 2008 (6:36 am)
Mercedes also has that prestige based on the past, not it's most recent cars. Frankly, a Lincoln has been a better buy quality wise than Mercedes has been over the past 5 years. That said, Mercedes is turning things around and getting back on the right track.
Comparing Lincoln to Mercedes is apples to oranges though, because the Merc is a RWD sport sedan and the Lincoln is a FWD luxury sedan. That said, the MKS is still a base model IIRC. From what i understand a Twin Turbo version of the 3.7L is in the works that will put out 300+ hp. (I could be going off of old info that has since changed, but I remember hearing this somewhere.) The point that the other poster was trying to make is that a company can offer a high class sedan with less than 300 hp. Mercedes currently offers a base model E class with 268hp for $53k and Lincoln offers a base model MKS with 275hp for $39k.
In a comparison that's more accurate, the Cadillac DTS has a 4.6L V8 that only puts out 275 horses as well and that car starts at $43k. Just throwing that out there.
Sep 16, 2008 (7:47 am)
I think pathetic is a little harsh. You are right, if you are interpreting that as a critique of the MKS. What I really meant is, here is a world-wide recession, a pulling in of cheap leases on luxury cars, and a generalized sales downturn. Meanwhile, other than the MKS (which still doesn't have the direct injection engine available), Lincoln's line-up is motley and not changing fast. The F150 clone is going away (and should), the Navigator is failing in the marketplace with no replacement in sight, the MKX is little more than an Edge with lipstick (and doesn't look a thing like any other Lincoln), the MKZ has to soldier on with a Fusion body for several more years, and the Town Car, which unfortunately still sets the image for Lincoln, is now deservedly fleet only. What's on the horizon? The MKT, which is not exactly what Lincoln needs right now, and will only appear in very watered down form after almost another year passes. All that is pathetic.
Look at Cadillac with their much better/more integrated line-up. They still have major problems in making decent sales in this environment. Even so, they have still lots of new models coming (new CUV, CTS coupe, CTS wagon, new small RWD sedan, plus a planned DTS/STS replacement). How will Lincoln ever catch up? The resources aren't there, and present lineup cannot sustain them over the next several years. It's a tough place to be.
#2116 of 2980 Re: [gregg_vw]
Sep 16, 2008 (8:25 am)
I don't disagree - it will be tough and it will take years to get the product line turned around. But I'm not sure I'd use Cadillac as the poster child. The SRX was a failure and is being replaced. I'm pretty sure they cancelled the new DTS/STS replacement. I like the CTS and variations but that and the Escalade(s) are really the only things they've done even remotely right.
I'm not ready to throw in the towel on the MKT yet. I think those prototypes have padding under the camo and the production vehicle may still be very close to the concept car. It's also possible they'll have both a 3 row and 2 row model with the 2 row model using the concept rear design while the 3 row model has a more conventional rear to accomodate the extra seats.
If it looks like a flex or navigator rear though I agree that's not good at all.
Sep 16, 2008 (8:32 am)
I agree with greeg vw, Caddy has a couple of planned products even if some are off the same platform they have new products planned. Lincoln only has the MKT as completion for the rwd platform has no specific finish date. Due to fuel prices and lack of money i understand with ford not having a proper rwd platform currently but they at least could try to make their existing and upcoming products (2010 MKZ, 2010 MKT) very competitive. Lets not forget that GM is also in a fiancial crisis but they are still planning new product for caddy because they know in todays car market you cant become placent. Future Lincolns need to have something that is going to put them at or near the top of the class. Since they say that the 3.7 is "lincoln exclusive", then make it truely lincoln exclusive and give it to all lincolns, let the fusion and milan have the 3.5 as options.
2010 Mks(Standard 3.7 Direct Injection 310Hp, Sport suspension option, 3.5 ecoboost 360HP)
2010 MKZ(Standard 3.7 273 Hp, Optional 3.7 D.I. 300-310HP, manumatic, standard traction control, updgrade suspension option)
2010 MKT(Standard 3.7 D.I. 310 Hp, 3.5 ecoboost 360-370 Hp optional, more sporty suspension than flex)