Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

7263 messages, Last post on May 27, 2009 at 4:31 AM

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What is this discussion about? Car Buying

With parts coming from everywhere, does "Buying American" have much meaning anymore? Is quality and price the bottom line?

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#6613 of 7263 Re: Big Day Coming Up!!!!!!!! [grbeck] by cooterbfd Nov 26, 2008 (4:53 pm)
Replying to: grbeck (Nov 26, 2008 8:06 am) First, anything that can fit in the trunk of my Park Ave IS a little metal can Second, in spite of you THINKING they lack skill, if Honda makes so much money on them, and the Civic is put together as well as you guys claim, then maybe the workers DESERVE more than $15/ hr. Replies to this message: bpizzuti (Nov 27, 2008 4:56 am) cooterbfd (Nov 27, 2008 12:45 pm) bpizzuti (Nov 27, 2008 5:43 pm) and 5 more... m1miata (Nov 30, 2008 5:21 pm) nvbanker (Nov 30, 2008 7:32 pm) bpizzuti (Dec 01, 2008 2:24 am) and 6 more...
#6614 of 7263 Re: Big Day Coming Up!!!!!!!! [cooterbfd] by bpizzuti Nov 27, 2008 (4:56 am)
Replying to: cooterbfd (Nov 26, 2008 4:53 pm) You think that them being put together so well has to do with the design and engineering maybe? Inserting Tab A into Slot B, wash, rinse, repeat, is not skilled labor. Just for comparison, an entry-level job in information technology, doing operations, PC, and network troubleshooting and such, makes $15 per hour in my area of the Hudson Valley, which is a fairly high-rent area for the suburbs. That job requires an education in information technology. $15 per hour for unskilled labor jobs on an assembly line is quite good as a starting salary, especially when it's not in McMansion-ville. By the way, the term "skilled" and "unskilled" labor are not judgments on actual skill; they're technical terms indicating the level of training and vetting they have to go through to be in the profession. Most contractors, particularly electrical and plumbing for example, are considered skilled labor. They had to get educated, study, and be certified or licensed in their trade. Unskilled labor is typically when Joe Bloe can step off the street, be shown how to do a particular task, and then do it. It's a lot more complex than that, but that's the general gist of it. Replies to this message: cooterbfd (Nov 27, 2008 12:45 pm) bpizzuti (Nov 27, 2008 5:43 pm) cooterbfd (Nov 27, 2008 6:03 pm) and 4 more...
#6615 of 7263 Re: Big Day Coming Up!!!!!!!! [bpizzuti] by cooterbfd Nov 27, 2008 (12:45 pm)
Replying to: bpizzuti (Nov 27, 2008 4:56 am) Don't get me started on the IT theme. What is disgusting to me is the thought that someone making that $15/hr, with their education, would have their job threatened by someone in India making $400/mo. We can tarriff a car, but how do you tarriff a service??? Replies to this message: bpizzuti (Nov 27, 2008 5:43 pm) cooterbfd (Nov 27, 2008 6:03 pm) 62vetteefp (Dec 01, 2008 4:36 am) and 1 more... lemko (Dec 01, 2008 7:48 am) and 1 more...
#6616 of 7263 Re: Big Day Coming Up!!!!!!!! [cooterbfd] by bpizzuti Nov 27, 2008 (5:43 pm)
Replying to: cooterbfd (Nov 27, 2008 12:45 pm) Hey, it's my field. I could have chosen an example I knew nothing about, but then I'd look like an idiot. Luckily, my particular job isn't threatened by that in any way, though many of the entry-level operations-type jobs are. Interesting parallel with what the UAW is afraid of by the way, but the IT business responded by becoming more competitive to keep more of the jobs here. The UAW...I don't have a problem with unions in general, but the UAW seems to just have issues sometimes. That's the really sad part, because American labor really IS the best in the world on a per-dollar basis, except when it comes to UAW workers, it seems. Replies to this message: cooterbfd (Nov 27, 2008 6:03 pm) 62vetteefp (Dec 01, 2008 4:36 am) steve_ (Dec 01, 2008 7:17 am) lemko (Dec 01, 2008 7:48 am) cooterbfd (Dec 02, 2008 6:04 pm)
#6617 of 7263 Re: Big Day Coming Up!!!!!!!! [bpizzuti] by cooterbfd Nov 27, 2008 (6:03 pm)
Replying to: bpizzuti (Nov 27, 2008 5:43 pm) "...Hey, it's my field." I figured as much. It just gets my gall to think that someone could spend tens of thousands of dollars on an education, only to be undercut by someone who makes literally a fraction of what you make. Pretty soon we'll need a Phd just to get a job at Mcdonalds. Replies to this message: 62vetteefp (Dec 01, 2008 4:36 am) steve_ (Dec 01, 2008 7:17 am) lemko (Dec 01, 2008 7:48 am) cooterbfd (Dec 02, 2008 6:04 pm)
#6618 of 7263 Re: Big Day Coming Up!!!!!!!! [cooterbfd] by m1miata Nov 30, 2008 (5:21 pm)
Replying to: cooterbfd (Nov 26, 2008 4:53 pm) Actually quality cars are often smaller and building a car lighter requires more engineering and expense for materials. If you believe your Park Ave to be of higher build quality and drive ability, that is your own reality. To each his own. As for wages, it is the market for workers with the ability to do that particular work which will set the wage, unless you are talking socialism, communism or union scales. I would imagine somewhere between $15 and $25 per hour to make sense for the job at hand - in other words, that is what I would expect to make. Replies to this message: nvbanker (Nov 30, 2008 7:32 pm) bpizzuti (Dec 01, 2008 2:24 am) nvbanker (Dec 04, 2008 8:49 am) and 5 more...
#6619 of 7263 Re: Big Day Coming Up!!!!!!!! [m1miata] by nvbanker Nov 30, 2008 (7:32 pm)
Replying to: m1miata (Nov 30, 2008 5:21 pm) Exactly, the Union is designed to manipulate the market and set wages artificially higher than the market will normally allow. Good for the worker, right up to the day when there is no longer a job for you because the industry has gone bust. Replies to this message: bpizzuti (Dec 01, 2008 2:24 am) nvbanker (Dec 04, 2008 8:49 am) imidazol97 (Dec 04, 2008 9:10 am) and 3 more... bpizzuti (Dec 04, 2008 9:37 am)
#6620 of 7263 Re: Big Day Coming Up!!!!!!!! [nvbanker] by bpizzuti Dec 01, 2008 (2:24 am)
Replying to: nvbanker (Nov 30, 2008 7:32 pm) You know this is stuff I hate to hear, as if the unions had horns or something. Why is it all of a sudden if there's a union the onus is 100% on the union to set the out-of-market wage, instead of the goofball at the car company that was dumb enough to sign a contract agreeing to it? It's up to the car company to determine what pay rate is profitable to pay their employees at. If they screw up that math it's THEIR fault, because union or no, they'd likely pay their employees too much (kinda like they're paying most of their non-union execs too much right now, for example). Now, mind you, the union isn't helping with the jobs bank and all...they're not innocent. But there's no way they should be carrying 100% or even 51% of the guilt. Replies to this message: nvbanker (Dec 04, 2008 8:49 am) imidazol97 (Dec 04, 2008 9:10 am) andres3 (Dec 09, 2008 3:34 pm) and 2 more... bpizzuti (Dec 04, 2008 9:37 am)
#6621 of 7263 Re: Big Day Coming Up!!!!!!!! [cooterbfd] by 62vetteefp Dec 01, 2008 (4:36 am)
Replying to: cooterbfd (Nov 27, 2008 6:03 pm) "I figured as much. It just gets my gall to think that someone could spend tens of thousands of dollars on an education, only to be undercut by someone who makes literally a fraction of what you make. " Article in paper yesterday that lawyer work is being outsourced to India. Contracts go over there and they have rows of Indian lawyers going through them looking for errors. Guess that is a good thing. May soon not have any lawyers here. Naww that will not happen. Most of DC is lawyers and they will stop that somehow. Probably say it is not safe to have overseas labor looking at important contracts. May bring our country down it they make a mistake. Replies to this message: steve_ (Dec 01, 2008 7:17 am)
#6622 of 7263 Re: Big Day Coming Up!!!!!!!! [62vetteefp] by steve_ HOST Dec 01, 2008 (7:17 am)
Replying to: 62vetteefp (Dec 01, 2008 4:36 am) Legal research has been outsourced for decades. It's gone from the associates in the office to the 2nd and 3rd year law students to India. It's been shipped over there for at least 5 years - I remember bugging Bob/Marsha7 about it a couple of years ago. The guys in DC just mark it up 1,000% (Bob just marks it up 200%, lol). Follow the money. Time to play favorites? The automakers "agendas are diverging as they contemplate futures as drastically different car companies." Each Player in Big Three to Bring Its Own Plan (NY Times) The plans? UAW: Signaling More Concessions GM: Deeper Cuts, Possible Brand Eliminations Ford: Focus on Fuel Economy Chrysler: Looking for a Partner While Squabbling with Daimler Detroit Three: Making the Sales Pitch of a Lifetime (AutoObserver)