Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

7263 messages, Last post on May 27, 2009 at 4:31 AM

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What is this discussion about? Car Buying

With parts coming from everywhere, does "Buying American" have much meaning anymore? Is quality and price the bottom line?

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#6514 of 7263 Well, they're not at parity yet by bumpy Nov 07, 2008 (7:51 am)
...but the trend is definitely running in that direction. Toyota as a group builds about half of their sales volume here, with the imports being Lexus, Scion, and mostly the low-volume models (the Prius being the most notable import, but that will change before long). GM still builds more here than Toyota, but their collapsing volume (they will be hard-pressed to crack 3 million this year) and ingrained cost-cutting mentality will even them out fairly soon.
#6515 of 7263 Re: Investment? [lemko] by m1miata Nov 07, 2008 (10:57 am)
Replying to: lemko (Nov 05, 2008 10:42 am) That's great for you, but most people did not have such results buying GM in the 80's. Got a 1987 Olds98 Regency, and it had loads of problems new, and throughout its life until I got rid of the thing. And the trade-in was terrible. I guess others had more sense back then and avoided the Olds and GMs. With wind leaks in the windshield, an engine which chose to stop when it decided to, though would re-start again, inside mirror fell off, the cable to hand brake broke or came off, the paint on the roof top went bad, the mass air flow sensor replaces, crank case sensor replaced, programmable operation manager replaced, transmission replaced, and more lovely things, all within say three years time. I understand they changed the tranny in '88 = my luck, with a more sturdy one. In real money, as in 1987 money, it was $18K new and stickered at $20K, so this was a so called premium car. As the best Olds at the time, all I can say is to take me back to 1973 or older, to find great Oldsmobiles. GM had many of the best looking cars sold in the US of A for all these years. Unfortunately, the promise of just as good as Japan in the 80's, 90's, fell flat. Today the cars such as CTS and Vette are fine, no doubt, but the damage has been done. Perhaps, if the Unions want to hold on to jobs and GM, they would agree to a pay cut or layoffs when required without pay, and to pay health insurance, before GM goes bankrupt in December. Sure the government can step in and print more money, but what then??? Replies to this message: andre1969 (Nov 07, 2008 11:19 am) lemko (Nov 07, 2008 1:28 pm) captain2 (Nov 07, 2008 2:10 pm) andre1969 (Nov 07, 2008 4:03 pm) and 1 more...
#6516 of 7263 Re: Investment? [m1miata] by andre1969 Nov 07, 2008 (11:19 am)
Replying to: m1miata (Nov 07, 2008 10:57 am) In real money, as in 1987 money, it was $18K new and stickered at $20K, so this was a so called premium car. As the best Olds at the time, all I can say is to take me back to 1973 or older, to find great Oldsmobiles. Sadly, the "best" (premium) Oldsmobiles of 1987 were not necessarily the best when it came to quality. I'd imagine the most durable models were the Cutlass Supreme sedan/coupe, and the Custom Cruiser wagon, both of which had been in production for years, with plenty of time to get most of the bugs worked out. 1973 was a good year for Oldsmobile, though. Probably not a crappy one in the bunch that year, although those lower body "skegs" on the mid- and full-sized cars tended to bruise up easily and also seemed to rust pretty quickly. But hey, it was the 70's...EVERYTHING rusted! Replies to this message: lemko (Nov 07, 2008 1:28 pm) captain2 (Nov 07, 2008 2:10 pm) andre1969 (Nov 07, 2008 4:03 pm) lemko (Nov 07, 2008 4:12 pm)
#6517 of 7263 ONE American Vehicle by andres3 Nov 07, 2008 (1:20 pm)
was more than enough in my one lifetime. I feel like the one domestic vehicle I purchased (and for sure the last) was MORE than enough contribution to the US economy in the form of repairs and tow truck services.
#6518 of 7263 Re: Investment? [andre1969] by lemko Nov 07, 2008 (1:28 pm)
Replying to: andre1969 (Nov 07, 2008 11:19 am) Odd, because my 1988 Buick Park Avenue is essentially the same car as that 1987 Olds Ninety-Eight. Was there that big a difference between the assembly quality of an Oldsmobile and a Buick? I would probably have to run my car into a concrete wall, killing myself in the process, to destroy it. Replies to this message: captain2 (Nov 07, 2008 2:10 pm) andre1969 (Nov 07, 2008 4:03 pm) lemko (Nov 07, 2008 4:12 pm)
#6519 of 7263 Quite possibly... by lemko Nov 07, 2008 (1:31 pm)
...ONE American vehicle could've been sufficient for me in my lifetime. With the luck of avoiding accidents and religious care and maintenance, I could probably STILL be driving my 1968 Buick Special Deluxe to this day and well into the future. Replies to this message: circlew (Nov 07, 2008 5:09 pm)
#6520 of 7263 Re: Investment? [lemko] by captain2 Nov 07, 2008 (2:10 pm)
Replying to: lemko (Nov 07, 2008 1:28 pm) Odd, because my 1988 Buick Park Avenue is essentially the same car as that 1987 Olds Ninety-Eight. Was there that big a difference between the assembly quality of an Oldsmobile and a Buick Detroit, particularily GM, has shown a great talent for rebadging ostensibly identical cars. I wouldn't think there was any real differences between you Buick and the other gentlemen's Olds. Assembly quality better at Buick, possibly, but more likely just luck of the draw - or a tribute to your conscientious routine maintainence. Consistency of quality of manufacture has been a Detroit problem for years, witness what has happened to Toyota recently (at least according to CR) some early problems with a few isolated models (the Camry V6 being one) have been corrected all within about 1 model year and that car along with some others are now all rated superior in that regard. With Detroit this kind of thing is the exception, not the rule, and this remains as true today as it was back in the 80s..
#6521 of 7263 Re: Investment? [lemko] by andre1969 Nov 07, 2008 (4:03 pm)
Replying to: lemko (Nov 07, 2008 1:28 pm) I've heard that the 4-speed automatic transmission that GM used for its FWD cars was improved for 1988, compared to 1987. That was the biggest thing, but at that time, GM was making running improvements to the cars from year to year, and possibly even within a given model year, so the later models were probably more reliable than the earlier ones. The first ones, 1985, were particularly bad. On the subject of quality though, back in the late 80's and 90's, the Buick LeSabre consistently won awards from JD Powers for initial quality and such. But you never heard anything about the FWD Olds 88 or Pontiac Bonneville, which were the same car. When it comes to things like the engine, transmission, a/c, etc, though, they should all be the same for a given model year. Sometimes minor things can make a difference with those JD Powers surveys, though. Pontiacs back then tended to have junky interiors with lots of little pieces that would easily break and fall off. Buicks were much better in regard, and I'm guessing Oldsmobiles were, too. So it's possible that it was just little piddly defects that worked against the Bonneville, and possibly the 88 as well. If a Bonneville has three pieces of trim fall off, that probably counts as three defects, but if a Taurus dumps its transmission, but is fine otherwise, that's only one defect. It's also kind of curious that the Electra/Park Ave never got all that highly praised for its quality, in the same light that the LeSabre did. Oh, on that subject, something just popped into my mind. In my old 1985 Consumer Guide, they have a test of a LeSabre and a Delta 88, the last of the RWD models. They rated the LeSabre fairly high for its fit and finish, paint quality, interior, etc. But they trashed the Delta 88! I wonder if the LeSabre and Delta 88 were built on separate assembly lines? If so, that could have something to do with it. Another possibility is that quality was inconsistent enough in those days that maybe they just got ahold of a good Buick, but a sloppy Olds? Replies to this message: lemko (Nov 07, 2008 4:12 pm)
#6522 of 7263 Re: Investment? [andre1969] by lemko Nov 07, 2008 (4:12 pm)
Replying to: andre1969 (Nov 07, 2008 4:03 pm) That last RWD LeSabre was a really nice car with a really plush interior. I remember that sharp example we saw at Carlisle about two years back. Funny that the Park Ave/Electra didn't do as well as the LeSabre in the quality reviews. It's basically the same car with nicer trim and a more upright back window. I was surprised how much rear seat room the '88 Park Ave had when I first got it.
#6523 of 7263 Re: Quite possibly... [lemko] by circlew Nov 07, 2008 (5:09 pm)
Replying to: lemko (Nov 07, 2008 1:31 pm) That's the defining moment of time that was the true US auto industry. The 1960's is what I will remeber best. Since then,