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Automotive News & Views Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?
7263 messages, Last post on May 27, 2009 at 4:31 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
With parts coming from everywhere, does "Buying American" have much meaning anymore? Is quality and price the bottom line?
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Replying to: lemko (Sep 25, 2008 3:06 pm) I think one reason people might trade these cars often is because they just like to always have something new, or they just get bored with their current ride rather quickly. And since the cars hold their resale value so well, after 2-3 years they might actually have enough equity in the car to be able to trade it in on a new one, with little financial pain. The downside of this is that they're essentially making payments for the rest of their lives. However, if they're going to trade often, it's still cheaper to do it with a Honda or Toyota, or to a lesser degree a Nissan, than it is with a GM, Ford, or Chrysler product. For instance, just imagine how deep in the hole I'd be right now if, say, I traded my 2000 Intrepid for a 2003, and then for a 2006 Charger, and was now on the hunt for a 2009? 
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Replying to: m1miata (Sep 25, 2008 9:05 pm) They haven't had a viable performance vehicle since the mid-90s. Honda is more like the MoPar kids or the Ford people which liked there Stangs or hotrods. The more attitude company Yeah, I totally believed this until I got my '07 Accord, which is a rolling retirement home. The handling is uninspiring, the ride quality is average, and its main redeeming quality is fuel economy. It sounds a lot like Toyota to me. They are selling the GT and current V6 at good prices, but so low it has to hurt. They need to sell above $25K and $20K to make it. At $8k off V8 and $5K off V6, it ain't looking pretty. Sure the buyer likes the low price, but the dealerships are closing. They want the '08s gone so they can get the '10s, same with the F150. Dealerships are closing because there are too many dealerships. |
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Sep 26, 2008 4:32 am) Can you pull out where it said that, I just saw where it said it went up by 500 billion every year since 2003 with the village idiot running things. Oh and Clinton and Rubin were where the push to "give" everyone a mortgage and homeownership started. That was aided by people like Dodd and Frank pushing for popularism. Right, when Fannie May and Freddie Mac were paying out HUGE dividends to share holders and having record profits, when the economy was growing and there were more jobs being created, when inflation was under control and interest rates were stable, Billy suggested Freddie Mac and Fannie May might want to consider lending to people who might actually need to borrow money. Aww shucks. Then our latest economic champion decided to make the loans even more liberal and not worry about pesky things like how they qualify, even though the economy had stopped growing, job growth was at a standstill, etc. Now, I can't afford to buy a new car even if I wanted to and I can't move because I can't afford to sell my house. The lack of new jobs means if anything else happens in this region, I just mail my keys to the mortgage company and walk away (I would normally drive, but with 3.75 for gas in a de-regulated industry and the amount still owed on the cars, walking might be my best bet). Resale value of domestic small and mid-sized sedans has risen dramatically in the last 2-3 years, and the incentives for new ones have been decreasing. At the same time, the '07 Accord was 4000 off of msrp.
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Sep 26, 2008 3:43 am) Uh, a big part of the reason that we are in trouble now was because loans were so easy to get back then. So I wouldn't be holding that one up as a good thing. Incidentally, credit is still available for people with good credit ratings and reliable income, which is as it should be, so I'm not seeing the problem here. The return to sane lending standards hardly constitutes a "crisis" or a "problem." It's more like a "solution."  We had a smaller deficit because all of those capital gains from stock options exercised during the tech boom were filling both the U.S. Treasury and state treasuries. The tech boom was over by early 2000 - check who was president then. And anyone who thinks that other countries really liked us prior to the Bush president is kidding himself. They tolerated us...and many of their compliments were really quite barbed. What really happened is that since 9/11, they've had to face a growing threat within their own borders (check out those recent "youth" riots in France, or the murder of Theo Van Gogh in the Netherlands by a Muslim extremist - are we going to blame them on George W. Bush, too?). Anti-Americanism is a nice distraction for them. They've also had a relationship with a corrupt dictator - Saddam Hussein - exposed and ended. I would be surprised if they still liked us after all of that happened, too. |
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Sep 26, 2008 6:27 am) And where is the superior domestic competitor to the Accord? The OLD Accord bested the domestic competition in every way - it was one of the gold standards in its class - and the new one appears to be continuing that tradition. The Accord still bests the domestic competition in handling, refinement and reliability. And no domestic company offers anything like the Accord V-6 six-speed coupe. I like the new Malibu and Fusion, but the bottom line is that they don't have anything like the Accord's image, they aren't nearly as appealing to younger people, and they still rely on fleet sales for a fair amount of their total sales. You're entitled to your opinion, but people voting with their dollars, and reviewers from a variety of sources, say otherwise. |
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Sep 26, 2008 6:40 am) The seeds of a company's fall are usually planted during good times. Just because Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were paying out dividends a few years ago doesn't meant that there weren't problems brewing. Studebaker paid out dividends in the early 1950s, when it should have been investing that money in new plants and equipment. The company was almost bankrupt by early 1954. The company's problems didn't start on January 1, 1954. The standard for whether people should be lent money is whether they can reasonably be expected to pay it back, not whether they need it. I could certainly use $500,000 right now. No prudent bank or credit union would lend me this money, as I certainly can't pay it back within a reasonable time frame. lilengineerboy: Then our latest economic champion decided to make the loans even more liberal and not worry about pesky things like how they qualify, even though the economy had stopped growing, job growth was at a standstill, etc. This problem started LONG before George W. Bush became president, although I agree he has made a bad situation worse. The move to use the Community Reinvestment Act as a way to pressure banks and other lending institutions to relax loan guidelines that were deemed "unfair" and "racist" began in the 1990s. Again, check who was president during that time... lilengineerboy: Resale value of domestic small and mid-sized sedans has risen dramatically in the last 2-3 years, and the incentives for new ones have been decreasing. At the same time, the '07 Accord was 4000 off of msrp. Yet I still see that, according to Edmunds.com, the domestics still rely on incentives more than Toyota and Honda. And they still rely on fleet sales more, despite constant promises to reduce this way of artificially inflating sales. Meanwhile, I just priced out a brand-new Civic sedan on Edmunds.com. The True Market Value is....the sticker price. I guess Honda doesn't need many incentives to move those cars. |
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Replying to: grbeck (Sep 26, 2008 7:18 am) The French loved us then and they still love America. Maybe not the so called elite, but American movies, food and other US cultural aspects are huge there. Lance is going to stomp them again however.  This Forbes commentator thinks the best way to create jobs here is to push foreign automakers to build more cars in the US. Welfare Kings In Cadillacs
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Replying to: steve_ (Sep 26, 2008 7:37 am) |
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Replying to: steve_ (Sep 26, 2008 7:37 am) 
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Sep 26, 2008 6:27 am) As for the Honda Accord, it too is pretty good. Of course a heavier car is not gonna dance like a Miata on the curves, but nonetheless in the weight class it has good moves - nicely weighted steering. Perhaps the lower profile tires make a bit of a difference here -- you have a base model? I will say the Michelin tires wear well, but squeal with ease, so perhaps a more sticky, softer rubber tire tread would help a Honda stick more. I see little tire wear at 20K miles. Is an Accord perfect - no not really. Powerful engine, which makes nice sounds at full throttle and good handling, I think are Honda's best traits. Interior is better than domestics. The belt line / door sill height is a bit lower, thank goodness, on the '07. ALL car seem to be going with some yesteryears slab sided, too tall door - too small window, look nowadays. So Ford is going to skip '09 cars? I swear I drove an '09 Stang.
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