Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

6684 messages, Last post on Dec 05, 2008 at 7:28 AM

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What is this discussion about? Car Buying

With parts coming from everywhere, does "Buying American" have much meaning anymore? Is quality and price the bottom line?

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#5794 of 6684 Re: Lets get serious here, folks... [lemko] by gagrice Jul 04, 2008 (7:45 am)
Replying to: lemko (Jul 04, 2008 7:34 am) I only buy Hawaiian shirts MADE IN HAWAII. 99% of my shirts are Hawaiian. I try to buy US made T-Shirts though people give me some made elsewhere. I don't like any of the new style shorts. So I am wearing ones I have had for 20 or more years. If I control my weight they should outlast me. Same with my Van's & Dexter shoes all Made in the USA. I don't own a pair of gym type shoes. My work boots are Danner's made in Oregon. I take the Kramer view of under shorts. Replies to this message: steve_ (Jul 04, 2008 7:52 am) circlew (Jul 04, 2008 9:04 am) steve_ (Jul 04, 2008 9:44 am) gagrice (Jul 04, 2008 9:41 am)
#5795 of 6684 Re: Lets get serious here, folks... [gagrice] by steve_ HOST Jul 04, 2008 (7:52 am)
Replying to: gagrice (Jul 04, 2008 7:45 am) Too much information. I make my own fabric but it's a tad warm to be wearing a rag rug. This guy says you can't turn globalization into a win/lose proposition. Rising tide and all that. This other guy says that the economics and vulnerability associated with a 12,000 mile supply chain will bring manufacturing jobs back to NA. So, if you want more stuff to be made here, better lobby to keep oil prices high. Replies to this message: circlew (Jul 04, 2008 9:04 am) steve_ (Jul 04, 2008 9:44 am) gagrice (Jul 04, 2008 9:41 am)
#5796 of 6684 Re: Lets get serious here, folks... [steve_] by circlew Jul 04, 2008 (9:04 am)
Replying to: steve_ (Jul 04, 2008 7:52 am) Exactly, it might cost us more for energy but all mfg will not go away in the US. We just need to change the failing model. Like I said about Tesla, the auto companies need to be patrol-boat size not battleship-class as in the past. More nimble and flexible is the key. I say break up the big three into the tiny 15. Each brand a separate company with US owner/workers. I would love to be a part of a small manufacturer of high quality efficient cars. How 'bout you? Regards, OW Replies to this message: steve_ (Jul 04, 2008 9:44 am)
#5797 of 6684 Re: Lets get serious here, folks... [steve_] by gagrice Jul 04, 2008 (9:41 am)
Replying to: steve_ (Jul 04, 2008 7:52 am) if you want more stuff to be made here, better lobby to keep oil prices high. That very well may be the end result. It is the pain in the interim that may cause a depression. The EU has had high fuel prices for a long time. I am sure they were gradually taxed to death. We have doubled the price of gas in a year with no real rise in people's income. With a 6 figure retirement there is not much to worry about. When you are making $9 per hour it can be the straw that breaks the camel's back. The other side of the equation. I wonder if the average woman in this country would sit over a sewing machine for 10 hours a day as my mother and grandmother did during the war and into the early 1950s? I pay a man that drives up from Tijuana $12.50 per hour to do yard work. He works very hard for 8 hours in the sun. I cannot get any of the nephews to do half as much work in a day. The hard working boys from church all have full time construction jobs now. I would love to see more products Made in the USA. I just wonder if we have the people willing to do the work. Keeping in mind the factories right across the border are paying less than $20 per day.
#5798 of 6684 Re: Lets get serious here, folks... [circlew] by steve_ HOST Jul 04, 2008 (9:44 am)
Replying to: circlew (Jul 04, 2008 9:04 am) I say break up the big three into the tiny 15 There's already dozens (100s?) of suppliers, so why not. On the other hand.... One example - there seems to be a bunch of small kayaking/rafting companies out there making inflatable boats or throw bags or life jackets. When you look closer though, one or two holding companies own most of them, and you just think they are little guys. You get some economies of scale in negotiating with suppliers, ad firms and maybe there's some product liability savings. So perhaps GM and Ford could just merge but let the brands operate more or less independently. .
#5799 of 6684 Maybe I am shortsighted by marsha7 Jul 04, 2008 (10:54 am)
or maybe I have great insight, depending on how you read this abbreviated post... We all seem to post our opinions with the assumption that economics are static, rather than dynamic...we want our shoes and shirts to be made here, paying our people $25/hour, instead of China (or choose your favorite 3rd world country...India, Mexico, Singapore, Vietnam, Great Britain [......}, where they are paid $2/day...yet we assume that the retail price of the product will remain the same... If shirt workers in South Carolina are paid $25/hour, we WILL have jobs in this country...but, instead of buying Walmart shirts for $12 each, they will be $25-40 each...we will not pay more for the labor without the retail price going up, that is what I mean by dynamic...many folks just assume that the entire structure will remain the same even tho the labor cost is 12 times higher, and that, simply, is not true... So, the average American guy, making, say, $15/hour, can no longer buy 5 shirts for $60, he can only buy 2 for $60...that means that the shirt lines in SC will only have need for fewer workers than the China line...yes, the jobs will be here, but how many???...how many of you out there buy custom made shirts from American shirtmakers for $60-75 each???...if everybody had custom shirts like that, the shirt industry would EXPLODE in America...but do you see everyone in WalMart buying shirts for $75 each, and buying 5 at a time???...I don't... Too many people who lament the jobs going to China will be the FIRST to scream at paying $75 per shirt, "just to keep the jobs in America"...they all seem to believe that shirtmakers will sell their American shirts at cost or below cost, because they simply do not comprehend how labor costs are part of the retail cost...remember, these are the same people who, when they get a $100 tax refund, will say they paid no taxes, when they really paid about $5000, but they overpaid so the refund makes them think they paid no taxes...yes, these are the people who may someday grow up and make our laws, and that scares me more than anything... So, my point is that if no jobs had been sent overseas, and all the labor was American labor at, say, $25-45 per hour, I really question just how much American goods would be flying off the shelves at prices few could afford...stores would need fewer clerks, stockroom people and cashiers as less merhcandise would be selling, fewer cars would be bought because of higher prices, so the entire auto industry would be smaller, having nothing to do with current oil prices... People who buy China shirts for $12 would not have the extra money left over to take the family out to eat, so restaurants would wither away, except in wealthy areas...McDonalds would be history, because breadwinners would be buying shirts for $30 each, so nobody goes out to eat...the growth of McDonalds, Wendys, Dennys probably tracks the growth of Walmart as shirt prices went down from being made in China...if WalMart did not lower prices, the other avenues for people's money would not have grown if all that income went to buying clothes...it is NOT static, it is dynamic...if one necessary item costs more, than other discretionary items will see less business... And, while I am at it, I do not lament the loss of Mom and Pop stores, because Mom and Pop have been raping us for years...a former office of mine needed special U-shaped fluorscent bulbs...local Mom and Pop hardware sold them for $16.50 each, so $50 bought 3...35 miles away, a new store called Home Depot opened up, selling the same bulb for $5.50...now, 3 bulbs cost $17, leaving $33 left over, make it $25 after gas costs to drive there, and, suddenly, we had a free dinner at a local restaurant, which would have never had my business if the money was spent at Mom and Pop...sorry, while empty storefronts may temporarily look bad on Main Street, having the townspeople ALL have extra $$$ in their pockets by abandoniong Mom and Pop is truly a better thing for EVERY family in town...there is nothing sacred about Mom and Pop except that they ripped us off for 50 years, and now the chickens are coming home to roost...new businesses WILL take the space of where Mom and Pop deserted their stores, and the DYNAMIC part of capitalism will shine again... Temporary end of economic rant...but better than any left-wing liberal explanation of those "mean" big box stores that put Mom and Pop out of business... Replies to this message: fintail (Jul 04, 2008 2:17 pm) lemko (Jul 05, 2008 6:18 am)
#5800 of 6684 VW to build US factory by gagrice Jul 04, 2008 (12:13 pm)
The large disparity between the value of the Euro and the U.S. dollar has given European automakers incentive to build plants Stateside. VW has been looking for the location of its next North American plant, and it appears as though we'll have an answer by July 8. Tennessee and Alabama are said to be the two major candidates for the $788 million facility, which could come online as soon as 2011 and produce 300,000 units per year by 2018. Word from Auto Motor Und Sport is that Michigan is completely out of the picture, and considering the state's history with the UAW and Volkswagen's white collar exit from the mitten, the news isn't all that surprising, though certainly disappointing for the depressed state. There is no word at this point which vehicles VW is planning to build at the new plant, though the German automaker will likely create a flexible manufacturing facility that can build several vehicles on one line. VW has had factories here in the past. Good to see them expanding here.
#5801 of 6684 Re: Maybe I am shortsighted [marsha7] by fintail Jul 04, 2008 (2:17 pm)
Replying to: marsha7 (Jul 04, 2008 10:54 am) Not competing with slave labor conditions isn't a bad thing, even if it makes many things more expensive. The ideal of globalization will not help the western world. It's not a liberal ideal, either. But some people like to put a political slant/whine to everything, even if the neocon criminals they embrace have done nothing positive themselves. Replies to this message: lemko (Jul 05, 2008 6:18 am)
#5802 of 6684 Re: Heck I'll keep buying Cadillacs and Buicks... [obyone] by m1miata Jul 04, 2008 (9:45 pm)
Replying to: obyone (Jul 03, 2008 11:47 pm) The original was just right. The new one will be too wide, and for a modern day car, rather heavy. The higher belt line I can do without. Almost looks like every car these days added another 6 " or better to the bottom section of cars. Take a look at the side profile. It is like you jacked up the old car, and then added a 6" to 8" bottom skirt around that car. And at near 80" width, it is commercial truck width, which is not good for tight city streets and parking. Add in the inflated pricing and you got a not so hot deal. The OLD Challenger looks awesome! Replies to this message: obyone (Jul 04, 2008 10:48 pm)
#5803 of 6684 Re: Heck I'll keep buying Cadillacs and Buicks... [m1miata] by obyone Jul 04, 2008 (10:48 pm)
Replying to: m1miata (Jul 04, 2008 9:45 pm) Someone had posted the comparison pic. The old one was lowered as it was a trans-am car. Don't see much width wise as a difference from old to new.