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Automotive News & Views Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?
7263 messages, Last post on May 27, 2009 at 4:31 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
With parts coming from everywhere, does "Buying American" have much meaning anymore? Is quality and price the bottom line?
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (May 03, 2007 2:43 pm) Exactly! You done well. Take a look at the Pontiac Vibe. It now costs about the same as a Toyota Matrix. The Matrix still has a better trade-in value. It's the same car - a hatchback made on a Corolla chassis. Only difference is the skin and some instruments. One is made in CA and the other somewhere else. Both have identical drive trains, specs and CR survey rates them the same. The Vibe is seen as American. The Matrix is viewed as Japanese. But get this. Because of the runaway GM re-bate program in 04, I got a Vibe for 14,600. I drove it for 3+ years and still got a Toyota dealer to give me 10,400 for the Vibe. Not bad! Was that because the dealer believes they can sell the car quicker knowing the buyer knows it’s basically a Toyota? That's a possibility because many people do buy on “perceived reputation" vs. Price. How you drive, how long you intend to keep the vehicle, how many were for sale when you were looking, all seem to make a difference in the final cost-out. |
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http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2007-03-22-american-usat_N.htm -Rocky
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Replying to: rockylee (May 04, 2007 4:03 am) I wanted a Toyota but did not want to be seen in one, so got the Pontiac Vibe - Everything said Toyota including the oil filter, but except for the badge which said Pontiac. Dad was happy because it's American. Now he's upset because I finally replaced it with a Camry. Now he blames me for putting Toyota ahead of GM in sales. Something about Pearl Harbor I think. Wasn't the Japanese Zero fighter made by Mitsubishi? I know it wasn't a Toyota-Zero? Maybe the next time we attack Japan, we'll use Toyota Fighter planes built in Lordstown, Ohio??? It's your call! |
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There is a part of me that agrees with everything you said...our economic future, stability of our country, etc... But there is another part of me that says that I should be able to buy quality and value where I find it...that concept, too, is American...I work hard for my money, and buying trash is as stupid as burning dollar bills in my fireplace... And I feel that being blindly "patriotic" in our car purchases is what gave the Big 3 a "free ride" in the 70s and 80s to make and sell us junk that barely qualified as a boat anchor, yet they called it transportation...whether you blame management, unions or both, the product was crap...PERIOD...simply junk...two decades worth at least...that is a lot of squandered reputation, and American makers are still paying for violating our trust, and the American autoworker made his bed and now he is lying on it...they should have had the foresight to pay attention, but all the autoworker looks forward to is the next 3 year contract, quality be damned... The real marketplace, which shows no bias except what the consumer is willing to pay, depreciates a vehicle made by Ford or GM by over 50% or more in 2 years...many Japanese makes and European makes do not depreciate as fast... Why is it patriotic for me to, literally, throw my money away on by buying a Caddy for $52K today, only to sell it for $25K in 2 years, whereas the same money spent on an "import" (defined any way you want to) may only depreciate to $35K in two years... Why should I lose an additional $10,000 in depreciation just to buy American and call myself patriotic???...why doesn't someone place the blame squarely where it belongs???...on the American carmakers, who make a product that the REAL MARKETPLACE recognizes as either 1) so overpriced when new that it loses value like a stone, or 2) so poorly made that it really will not last as long as the average Camry, Accord, etc... Americans who do not want to buy junk and lose their buns on an American product are the ones who deserve the praise, not the ones who blindly buy domestic brands, just to keep their neighbor employed who spends his/her time manufacturing junk and trash... If anyone is casuing the demise of our manufacturing base, it is, IMO, unions who demand exorbitant pay to perform work that is barely worth minimum wage...they have their union jobs, at least the few that are left, and fewer by the day...and management who is/are raping the companies for their golden parachutes, not caring if anything is left of the company except a corporate shell... I may be wrong on this, but companies like Boeing, GE, Microsoft, DuPont, and others compete very well in the marketplace and are world-class leading companies...only the auto companies, and their feeder industries are in trouble, because the workers got arrogant, made junk (throwing beercans in the chassis before the body is dropped is NOT a management problem, it is a worker problem, and an even GREATER worker problem when that derelict worker cannot be removed from the line until 2 year's worth of union appeals are filed and argued) and expected us to buy it, yet they showed NO DESIRE to stop their rotten work habits when slammed in the face with declining sales and mounting job losses... It may just take the disappearance of Ford to wake them up and stop taking the American consumer for granted, because we can take our money elsewhere, and we will... While some preach the loss of the American manufacturing base, and it is true, the rest of us do not want junk in our driveways just because our neighbor makes it...our neighbor has to EARN our business, something they forgot 25 years ago... If I buy something that depreciates 50% in two years, and falls apart in four, MY standard of living is now dramatically reduced because more of my income is being diverted to buy transportation that should have been as reliable as the Accord...so, either the auto worker loses his job and his standard of living, or I spend tens of thousands of dollars on junk that should have lasted years longer, which reduces MY standard of living that could have been used for a nicer home, better food, more vacations, etc....Don't forget all those workers in the vacation and food industry who ALSO depend on my spending for THEIR livlihoods, which I will not have the money to spend with them if all my money goes to replace depreciating automotive junk... Does that make me less patriotic because I am willing to sacrifice the American autoworker to buy a competitor's product that is objectively better, according to the maketplace of depreciation...why can't the US worker make a better car and out-Honda the Honda???...that is where I believe the union welfare entitlement attitude comes into play, and, after 25 years of watching union membership cut by 2/3, the remaining unionites simply "just don't get it" and probably never will... End of short rant...strong opinions to follow in next memo... 
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Replying to: marsha7 (May 11, 2007 6:32 pm) If you were to spend $52K on a luxury car, why would you be getting rid of it in only two years? I've had my 2002 Seville STS for over five and I have absolutely no desire to trade it. I'm waiting for at least 2010 short of my car being stolen or wrecked. I could care less about depreciation as I keep my cars for a very long time. They must be pretty good if I can keep them this long as my other rides are a 1988 Buick Park Avenue and a 1989 Cadillac Brougham. Besides, buying a car I don't like just because it has better resale value is still throwing money away in my book.
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Replying to: lemko (May 12, 2007 11:53 am) As for Buick and Cadillac thoose are two brands that generally don't have a reputation for bad quality. So your experince is not surprising. However the trouble is Cadallic and Buick for the most part do not compete with Toyota or Honda. Chevy and Saturn do. About the only model that Buick competes with is the Toyota Avalon.
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| If you keep your cars that many years, great, as depreciation does not affect you...but when one does want to trade in 2-3 years, the domestic vehicle is often slammed with a dramatic loss of value...since you keep vehicles a decade, you are exempt from the problem, but it still exists for those who do not keep a car as long as you do... | |
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Replying to: marsha7 (May 12, 2007 4:37 pm) Actually I do follow the keep it a long time school of thought. I ususally need a reasonably compelling reason to dump a car - either major mechanical problems or fear of impending ones. I'm always looking but only occasionally buying. |
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Replying to: marsha7 (May 12, 2007 4:37 pm)
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Replying to: steve_ (May 12, 2007 6:53 pm)
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