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Automotive News & Views Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?
7263 messages, Last post on May 27, 2009 at 4:31 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
With parts coming from everywhere, does "Buying American" have much meaning anymore? Is quality and price the bottom line?
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Replying to: andre1969 (Mar 13, 2006 4:13 pm) A pushrod has smaller heads than an OHC engine of the same displacement, but a pushrod of the same *power* will be as large as the OHC engine since it needs a significant displacement advantage to keep up. |
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it looks like the Toyota 3.0 V-6, when it had an iron block, was around 469 pounds. When it went to aluminum it was around 401. Now I'm guessing this is the same block that is still around in the Camry and Avalon, as the 3.0, 3.3, and 3.5. So unless something radical has been done to it, it's still probably in the 400 lb range. So even though many of these more modern aluminum engines OHC have their advantages, weight isn't necessarily one of them. Juice, I always thought the Ford 302 was a tiny looking thing anyway, but seeing it compared to the 4.6 is truly astounding! I've heard that the old 460 big-block actually takes up less physical space than the 4.6! At least the DOHC 4.6. It might still be a bit bigger than the SOHC 4.6.
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Replying to: andre1969 (Mar 14, 2006 11:10 am) -juice |
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the 5.4 won't even fit under the hood of the Crown Vic. I remember a few years back, before the Marauder came out, some enthusiast rag tried to make their own Panther musclecar by taking a 5.4 and stuffing it in the engine bay. There was no hood clearance though, so they had to cut it and put on a scoop, bulge, or something so it would close. I never understood the term "Modular" in reference to the Ford 4.6/5.4. Is it really any different from, say, the Chevy smallblock and the myriad of displacements it came in? It ranged from a 265 all the way up to a 400, all with the same basic block.
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Replying to: andre1969 (Mar 14, 2006 11:51 am) -juice |
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Replying to: andre1969 (Mar 14, 2006 11:51 am) Wikipedia to the rescue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Modular_engine "The engine is modular in that it can be adapted to V8 or V10 with a variety of 2-valve and multivalve heads." |
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Replying to: ateixeira (Mar 14, 2006 9:39 am) |
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| the "modular" V-8 really isn't any different in concept from, say, the old Mopar smallblock, which was available in V-8 sizes of 273/318/340/360, and later the 3.9 (~238?) V-6, and the 8.0 (488?) V-10? I guess the only difference is that with these being pushrod engines, they were always just 2-valve heads. | |
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http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/16/Autos/hot_cars/index.htm Edmunds compiled the list. They followed three criteria: actual selling prices closest to full sticker price, lowest amounts in rebates and other incentives, and shortest times on dealer lots. Of the 10, 6 are Toyotas, 1 is Honda Civic, 1 is Mini Cooper, 1 is Pontiac Solstice, and 1 is Ford Escape Hybrid. Three of the 10 are hybrids. Nine of the ten have average sticker prices from $14,261 - $28,274. The 10th one is Lexus RX400h at average sticker of $47,919. Four of the cars are under $20,000. Eight of them have "days to sell" of less than 20 days. Two of those 8 are below 10 days to sell. Highest "days to sell" is 36 days for Escape Hybrid. As I interpret the article, the list is based on sales data, not on opinions. |
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Replying to: rockylee (Mar 08, 2006 7:27 am) After marriage and kids, the 2-door Toro soon became obnoxious for getting kids in n out of the back . . . so I began asking why detroit was not building a FWD sedan! I was pooh poohed at every turn . . . that the Toronados and Eldorados were just a fad that would soon pass --- yeah, right! I did get my wife a '78 Honda wagon, but though I could manage to squeeze myself inside of it, was simply not pratical for this 6'2" cowboy. Anyway, after going to fly for the USAF and moving to Mather AFB (Sacramento CA), I finally decided that if GM wouldn't build a bigger FWD, I would. I checked various GM engineering journals, walked junk yards to do some measuring, bought a '75 Olds Custom Cruiser wagon with a good body and went to work over my one week 1982 Christmas break. Within the week I had taken the front of my '73 Toro and joined it to the rear of the '75 Custom Cruiser --- in a garage on Mather AFB, my '73 Toronado Cruiser was born! Yeah, I had people thinking I was crazy . . . but I've lost track of how many folks asked if I'd build them one; and others that have tried to buy it from me. I still have it. It is ALL Toronado up front (frame from torsion bar cross member forward) including the doghouse (fenders, hood, and bumper) with the Toronado axle fitted to the wagon's leaf springs. The Toro's flat floorboard was cut out and put in to replace the wagon's obnoxious tranny hump,as well as the drive shaft tunnel and rear differental flattened in the back. The wheelbase increased 7" and the ride reflects it. Later after PCSing to Altus AFB OK, and then back up to the family farm I ran it over the local feed elevator scales. Empty weight was an even 6000 lbs.! After a little research with GM, I realized I had used the heaviest of each models' production years --'73 the heaviest for the Toro and '75 the heaviest for the CC! What bugs me is that its 455ci engine gave 20+ mpg in the Toronado (5200+ lbs) and even in the wagon configuration at 6000 lbs. gives 17-18 mpg. Pray tell me why has "Detroit" not been able to give us better gas mileage over 30 years later!!! They're putting out lighter cars, smaller engines AND still have not significantly increased the mpg -- lbs to Hp ratio! The wagon served our family extremely well -- going through snow on more than one trip right along with the 4 X 4s on the road. I always carried chains -- the norm for northern climates, but only had to put them on a couple of times (back country roads). As to torque steer, perhaps due to vehicle weight, I was never bothered by it. I will say however, that anyone switching from RWD to FWD needs to realize some basic differnces when it comes to operational characteristics. For example, do NOT let up going into an icey (or wet) curve! Anticipate it and then maintian or accelerate slightly through it. I couldn't begin to recall all the times that FWD saved me/us while on the road --- from being able to "pull" me out of potentially dangerous situations -- with better directional control, to just plain being able to keep going on nasty roads when others were stuck spinning their tires! I've pulled heavy loads cross country with no problems whatsoever. I will NEVER, NEVER buy another RWD vehicle! Although, that said, I do have '70 Cadillac hightop ambulance (all original) that I've considered joining up with my '78 Eldorado, but not sure I want lto ose its "all original" resale value. My current "every day" car is a '90 Olds Ninety Eight TS with 203+K miles and contemplating a '95 Cadillac Concours with 72K miles. No, I will NEVER buy another RWD -- they're simply too limiting! FYI, my parents still have a '90 Lincoln Cartier which I've driven cross county - I was not impressed --- give me back my big ol' GM FWD! Bottomline, to each their own . . . though perhaps I do need to really put the Concours through the paces before I get serious about it. Anyone have any comments specific to the Concours handling -- could the suspension stand to be tightened up? FWDBuilder - Bruce |
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