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Automotive News & Views Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?
7263 messages, Last post on May 27, 2009 at 4:31 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
With parts coming from everywhere, does "Buying American" have much meaning anymore? Is quality and price the bottom line?
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Replying to: bobad (Mar 10, 2006 4:50 am) |
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| The DTS and 300 both edge over 2-tons. | |
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Replying to: clethro (Mar 09, 2006 1:48 pm) 1. We are practically paying double based on 1996 prices adjusted for inflation, however here in LA, a lot of people drive SUV's and pickups as if gas is still cheap. 2. We are not saving money, I can increase by 50%, my 401K monthly contribution with the fuel savings and cheaper car payments with a small economy car instead of a 4WD SUV. 3.As with the new Ford strategy, to sell distinctly American cars, like the Mustang? I just bought one, and it is expensive and when you hear the growl of the engine, you just want to drop the hammer some more. |
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does an aluminum engine block really save? This probably isn't the case anymore, but the Buick 3.8 V-6 used to be one of the lightest V-6es around. IIRC it weighs around 375 lb. Its peers of the time would have been the Chevy 229/3.8 V-6, which was around 425 lb, the Chevy 250-inline 6, which was around 450 lb, and the Mopar 225 slant six, which was around 475 lb. I think the Ford straight sixes of the time were around 425-450 lb. Now back in those days, going from a smallblock V-8 to a 6-cyl often saved you 200 lb or more. For example, while the Chevy 229 was 425 lb, the 305 smallblock was 575. The Mopar 318 was only 525 lb, only 50 lb more than the slant six, but by the time you factored in the bigger brakes, suspension mods, and other changes, you were looking at a total weight gain of close to 200 lb. But in going from, say, a pushrod 3800 V-6 to a DOHC aluminum block V-6, are you really saving much weight? Aluminum is lighter but also weaker, so they have to make it thicker and brace it up. And an OHC head, especially a DOHC head, is going to be bigger, bulkier, and heavier. Heck, some of those DOHC heads look bulkier than the old Hemi!
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| http://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/engineweights.html | |
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You bring up a very good point, Andre. A lot of people focus on internal displacement, and talk about specific output (HP/liter). But what really matters is the overall size and weight of the powertrain, not the interior displacement. Here's a photo comparing two Ford engines. The pushrod is a lot more compact. -juice
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Replying to: andre1969 (Mar 13, 2006 4:13 pm) A pushrod has smaller heads than an OHC engine of the same displacement, but a pushrod of the same *power* will be as large as the OHC engine since it needs a significant displacement advantage to keep up. |
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it looks like the Toyota 3.0 V-6, when it had an iron block, was around 469 pounds. When it went to aluminum it was around 401. Now I'm guessing this is the same block that is still around in the Camry and Avalon, as the 3.0, 3.3, and 3.5. So unless something radical has been done to it, it's still probably in the 400 lb range. So even though many of these more modern aluminum engines OHC have their advantages, weight isn't necessarily one of them. Juice, I always thought the Ford 302 was a tiny looking thing anyway, but seeing it compared to the 4.6 is truly astounding! I've heard that the old 460 big-block actually takes up less physical space than the 4.6! At least the DOHC 4.6. It might still be a bit bigger than the SOHC 4.6.
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Replying to: andre1969 (Mar 14, 2006 11:10 am) -juice |
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the 5.4 won't even fit under the hood of the Crown Vic. I remember a few years back, before the Marauder came out, some enthusiast rag tried to make their own Panther musclecar by taking a 5.4 and stuffing it in the engine bay. There was no hood clearance though, so they had to cut it and put on a scoop, bulge, or something so it would close. I never understood the term "Modular" in reference to the Ford 4.6/5.4. Is it really any different from, say, the Chevy smallblock and the myriad of displacements it came in? It ranged from a 265 all the way up to a 400, all with the same basic block.
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