Last post on Nov 27, 2013 at 4:01 PM
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With parts coming from everywhere, does "Buying American" have much meaning anymore? Is quality and price the bottom line?
#18542 of 18912 Re: Name has been changed same old vehicle? [gagrice]
Sep 04, 2013 (5:10 am)
>Government Motors is headed out of the USA.
It's not "Government Motors" except in the politics of the current administration's having screwed them over with the UAW being kept intact and given part control.
General Motors is being forced to build/assemble outside the US to keep costs of UAW labor down and to be competitive with the outside companies who have built plants here, usually with general government support to help subsidize their new plants and their operations for decades into the future in some cases.
>I think GM should have stuck with one name from beginning to end. Like the Corvette and Suburban.
GM gets criticized in discussions if they keep the same name and and they criticized fi they don't keep the same names for continuity. Sort of like a husband being nagged by a wife who never is satisfied.
#18543 of 18912 Re: Name has been changed same old vehicle? [gagrice]
Sep 04, 2013 (5:05 am)
Yeah, I think it was Lumina APV, then Venture, then Uplander. I wouldn't really consider the Traverse to be a direct replacement though, as it's more Crossover/Softroader or whatever they call it, than minivan.
Aren't the Sienna and Previa, nowadays, two totally different vehicles? The Sienna seems like something that was developed mainly with US tastes in mind, while I thought the current Previa is more of a Mazda 5-sized thing? Sort of what minivans used to be, once upon a time?
#18544 of 18912 Re: Name has been changed same old vehicle? [andre1969]
Sep 04, 2013 (5:22 am)
It looks like the Toyota Previa maintained a smaller size for the rest of the World. The Sienna was built for the US market as close as I can tell. They also build vehicles with the same name that are different for our market. The Land Cruiser sold here since 1964 is much different than the Land Cruiser sold to the rest of the World. World market Toyotas are built much more rugged with solid diesel engines. We get the Foo Foo crap from Japan.
Until the Feds sell controlling interest in GM it will be Government Motors to me. And If the Chinese happen to buy that 17% interest the Feds plan to sell it will get a name change to Chinese Motors.
The way the bailout was handled, was purely political for UAW support. The $26 billion in tax dollars funneled into the poorly managed UAW/GM pension plan is my main gripe. Until that $26 Billion is paid back to the tax payers I will consider the whole bailout a rip off to help a very small population of the country.
#18545 of 18912 UAW bailout Corruption to the max
Sep 04, 2013 (5:33 am)
American Airlines Shows The Corruption Of Obama's GM Bailout
The American Airlines bankruptcy reveals the scope of President Obama’s political payback to the UAW. Unlike General Motors and Chrysler, American Airlines is undergoing a “normal” Chapter 11 bankruptcy according to the rule of established law. The GM (and Chrysler) bankruptcies of 2009 were directed by a White House task force that upended regular bankruptcy procedures. The White House objective was not to create a competitive new GM, but to get the best deal possible for the UAW and make GM a de facto “Government Motors.”
It’s not that the airline unions failed to deliver for Obama and the Democrats in 2008. The Airline Pilots Association contributed three quarters of a million dollars – small change compared to the UAW’s more than four million to Obama and the Democratic Party. Apparently you have to pony up big to get a deal from Obama.
The White House Auto Task Force and its Czar spared UAW the dismay and outrage of renegotiated union pay scales, revised work rules, and loss of defined-benefit pensions that American Airlines union members face. American’s anticipated fifteen percent job loss is about the same as GM’s, but without a dime of taxpayer money. Obama did not save GM jobs, he saved UAW pay scales and pensions. UAW members left their jobs with a $25,000 new car and $20,000 cash. (Chrysler employees left with much more). Laid-off American Airlines pilots, mechanics and flight attendants will likely leave with little or nothing.
I can imagine the UAW’s unspoken message for the White House in June of 2009: “Mr. President, in a normal bankruptcy, we might end up with the same wages as those scabs at Toyota and Volkswagen in the South. The court might order cuts in our pensions. We gave you our money, and you protect us. You can claim you are doing it for the middle class. That story might sell.”
http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2012/02/06/american-airlines-sho- - ws-the-corruption-of-obamas-gm-bailout/
#18546 of 18912 Re: Name has been changed same old vehicle? [imidazol97]
by MrShift@Edmunds HOST
Sep 04, 2013 (7:51 am)
the UAW could have worked for free and I bet GM would have gone bankrupt. Their management was beyond bad. There are plenty of automakers who pay equal to, or close to, UAW wages right now, as we speak, and they are profitable.
#18547 of 18912 Re: Name has been changed same old vehicle? [MrShift@Edmunds]
Sep 04, 2013 (8:12 am)
>Their management was beyond bad.
No argument from me on that point. Inbreeding?
>who pay equal to, or close to, UAW wages right now, as we speak, and they are profitable.
No argument from me on that point in re the wage amount.
But do they have the future costs of the UAW's retirement plan along with the fully paid medical, dental, vision, long term care plan, etc., AND the pension costs of the UAW?
Nope, not with Georgetown, e.g., with the once reported 40% part time employee list. Doubt they cost the company much in the future for pension, medical, dental, etc., care plans. They can be terminated at will and they're gone, gone, gone.
I still see GM retirees here buying GM vehicles at a low cost. Although GM may make money toward their fixed costs through that sale just as they do with rental/lease sales, there would be more profit out there selling to retail customers rather than at reduced rate to GM X plan buyers.
Ironically, when we're in Michigan, in Canton/Plymouth, I am stunned by the numbers of FoMoCo vehicles on the streets and in the driveways. Many times more than I see in this area of W. Ohio.
#18548 of 18912 Re: Name has been changed same old vehicle? [imidazol97]
by MrShift@Edmunds HOST
Sep 04, 2013 (8:37 am)
Well management and the UAW were Thelma and Louise in that car, going off the cliff together. The UAW did nothing that management did not agree to.
#18549 of 18912 Why we should have let GM go through Bankruptcy
Sep 04, 2013 (9:13 am)
The UAW did nothing that management did not agree to.
Both parties at GM were to blame. As pointed out the longterm expenses such as the gold plated HC plan for retirees will continue to cost GM big time. That could have been eliminated with a real Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Our Teamsters Union dropped the lifetime HC for retirees in the 1980s as being too detrimental to the health of the pension plan. Why was the UAW and GM management so ignorant? They did not suffer unless they happened to be white collar or maybe Delphi employees. They got screwed like the tax payers. GM nor Chrysler would have folded if they went through a LEGAL bankruptcy. Maybe we would not have lost so many GM jobs to Mexico and Korea. Don't forget the top selling Silverado and Sierra now are only 40% US content. Down from 90% in 2007. Thanks to the bailout.
#18550 of 18912 Re: Name has been changed same old vehicle? [gagrice]
by Stever@Edmunds HOST
Sep 04, 2013 (9:53 am)
It looks like the Toyota Previa maintained a smaller size for the rest of the World.
No wonder I still like them so well.
Went to a bar on Labor Day (larb, NM style - yum ). The band was doing nothing but labor songs, including Mack the Knife. Lots of solidarity in the crowd. Some good pool sharks too but the hula hoop dancer didn't do much for me.
Didn't get to hear "The Internationale" but we didn't stay long enough to close the joint down.
#18551 of 18912 Re: Name has been changed same old vehicle? [Stever@Edmunds]
Sep 04, 2013 (12:20 pm)
The band was doing nothing but labor songs, including Mack the Knife.
Mack the Knife as a union anthem? I thought they were trying to distance themselves from petty thieves and murderers.