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#67 of 96 Re: a 20k Buick? [traindriver] (fezo) [hpmctorque]
Jan 29, 2009 (7:45 am)
Well the good thing GM has that helps them is they design one vehicle and the just rebadge the hell out of it (with some styling and sheetmetal tweaks) and voila! they get a whole new lineup?
So overall, GM just needs to:
- Design a new full size car that will go to Chevy, Buick, Cadillac
- Design a small car that can go to Chevy, Pontiac, Saturn, Saab
The rest is already covered.
They have a midsize car - Malibu/G6/Aura/9-3/Lacrosse
They already have a compact crossover coming - SRX/Torent/Terrain/Cheapuinox/9-4x
They already have full size crossover - Enclave/Outlook/Arcadia/Traverse/next Escalade
They already have a full size BOF - Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade
They have two identical pickup truck lineups
Sounds like they are almost done revampint the lineup.
#68 of 96 Re: a 20k Buick? [traindriver] (fezo) [hpmctorque] [anythngbutgm]
Apr 19, 2009 (12:34 pm)
This is exactly why GM is faltering. They dont get why their adge engineering doesnt work anymore and are still not willing to change. is dead and should be dropped. Its over. The magic that got me to buy Buicks in the past (conservative, luxury, elegant, reasonable) is gone with the Electra, Park Avenue, Century, LeSabre. I have no interest in the LuCrosse. I would buy a Toyota first over any Buick now. Let it die.
Nov 08, 2010 (7:34 am)
Buick will introduce the Verano for 2012, a Buick variant of the Chevy Cruze. Many Americans are cynical about Buick, but recent models suggest that Buick has learned from past mistakes. Maybe it needs to learn still more, but it seems to be on the right path.
How could the Verano improve on the Cruz? Here are my suggestions: First, it should feature independent rear suspension, for improved ride and handling. Second, exterior styling, and interior design and materials, should be upgraded. Third, more power, to go with the upgraded suspension and premium image. The Verano doesn't have to offer super car performance, as long as it's noticeably better than the Cruz, Civic, Corolla, etc. Fuel economy will suffer a little, but the target market for this car doesn't demand the very best fuel economy.
As for price, forget about $20,000. This car will start at a little under $25,000, and go for something over $30,000 fully loaded GS version. The GS should be exciting to look at and to drive, in the spirit of the pre-WWII and mid-'50s Centurys.
That's how I see it.
#70 of 96 Same problem
Nov 08, 2010 (9:19 am)
Let's first start with the Cruze, since the Verano is based on that. It's over-priced for what you get, unless Chevy plans on large discounts to move the product. The typical Cruze is going to sticker for over $20K. So yes you rightly noted a nicer Cruze - the Buick Verano will be closer to $25K.
That's a lot of $, especially when the larger, more powerful, and fairly fuel efficient Sonata is right there.
As I said before, if GM can't bring a car to market that matches the competition in quality and performance, yet sells for 10% less to make up for the stigma surrounding GM due to its history, then GM will not have a hit.
A Buick Verano at $25K, will just be another wishful grasp for a "savior" for GM or Buick, just as each of their introductions ove rthe last 30 years has not been a homerun for GM.
#71 of 96 Re: Same problem [kernick]
Nov 08, 2010 (12:36 pm)
You mentioned the one car in particular, the Sonata, that keeps auto executive of virtually every brand awake at night. While it's not perfect, from what I've read, the Sonata is outstanding in its class in two categories that really matter, fuel economy and value. In addition, it ranks high in exterior styling and performance. Finally, it doesn't seem to have any major faults.
Hyundai will soon introduce a new generation Elantra, which will compete more directly with the Verano than the Sonata does. Also, next spring Honda will introduce the next generation Civic, and I recently read that a new Acura model will be based on the Civic. This compact Acura may be the spiritual successor of the Integra/RSX. So, it looks like the Verano will have strong competition. Therefore, your point is well taken. Still, I think it's premature to count the Verano out before its even introduced. I think it'll have a decent chance if it's clearly differentiated from the Cruze.
#72 of 96 Re: Same problem [kernick]
Nov 08, 2010 (5:55 pm)
Unfortunately, the old GM is trying to resurrect itself. Buick successfully improves its image and ups its margin thanks to LaCrosse, Enclave (and I think the new Regal). So what now, let's degrade the hard won success and over proliferate our models. The Cadillac Cimmaron is back! A cheap Buick will just cheapen their image. What next, rental car lot dumping?
#73 of 96 Re: Same problem [berri]
Nov 08, 2010 (7:27 pm)
I foresee an upscale smaller Buick, not a cheap one. Smaller and cheap don't have to be synonymous. Although time will tell whether GM gets it right this time, I'm confident that management understands why the Cimarron failed in the marketplace.
#74 of 96 In One Word...
Nov 09, 2010 (6:04 am)
#75 of 96 Re: Same problem [hpmctorque]
Nov 09, 2010 (7:16 am)
Sure Buick can make an upscale, smaller Buick and sell some. Any automaker can sell anything they make in some numbers. But Buick does not need another low-volume car. Why do I say low-volume? Because the upscale, smaller market is already established here in the U.S. - the Europeans have had vehicles in that categories for years - Volvo C30, Mercedes, Audi A3, BMW 1 and 3 series, and with the exception of the BMW 3-series there really has been no success.
GM needs a couple of vehicles that people can get passionate about. I'm talking passionate - as in the original Mustang passion, Jag E-Type passion. They need to sell hundreds of thousands of a model. They don't need a Chevy-clone 4-cyl. small vehicle at $25K+.
Buick and GM need clearly superior vehicles right now, not another me-too, at a high price. I'd certainly take a nicely loaded Scion TC at $20K MSRP before I went to GM for 1 of these Cruze vehicles that will likely cost MORE! The Cruze should be optioned the same as the Scion TC and be 5-10% less. Option a Cruze out. GM still is not competitive many times.
#76 of 96 Re: In One Word... [lemko]
Nov 09, 2010 (1:11 pm)
C'mon, what's wrong with this?
lol, never mind. I couldn't even post that with a straight face...