Last post on Jun 09, 2010 at 8:42 PM
You are in the Honda Civic
What is this discussion about?
Honda Civic, Mazda MAZDA3, Sedan
#446 of 1338 Re: Mazda3 Vs. Honda Civic [herrkaleu]
Feb 19, 2006 (1:29 pm)
Ok, after reading through this, i don't think we are that far apart in our mindsets. Here are a few things I'd add.
First of all, that Accord you tested was likely cheaper than the Mazda 3 when optioned as you say (A Value Package Accord is about $18.2k).
I have the drum brakes on my 1996 Accord (LX/no ABS) have lasted 157,000 miles (still have life in them)(the discs on the front lasted 130k), and will lock up on dry pavement under a panic stop. I'm not sure what more you would get with rear discs than drums other than less brake fade (reduced braking power after numerous panic stops).
The hatchback is a bonus which I wish the Civic would bring back, but as far as interior room goes (I'm 6'5"), the Accord def wins out (I have a sunroof in my EX and I don't hit the ceiling).
Also, you mention the noiser Accord...the refreshed Accords are much quieter than the 03-04 models. What year is the Accord you drove? I'd be interested to know.
the Accord hybrid (at least the 2005 ones) have 6-cylinder engines and get almost the same mileage like the 4 cylinder non-hybrids
You fail to mention its horsepower is nearly 100 more while achieving better mileage than the 3 or Accord I-4.
As far as the Hybrid goes, I was referring to the Civic (since it is a Civic forum), but since you mention the Accord, the Hybrid Accord, when tested by the EPA standards, achieved better numbers than the Mazda 3S, or Accord I-4, all while delivering about 260 hp (on the old standard, same as Mazda SAE tests.) Yes, it costs more, which is why I was hoping to refer to the Civic Hybrid. Mazda only jumps on the Hybrid wagon when "mama Ford" tells it to; i.e. Tribute hybrid (shares w/ the Escape/Mariner).
I think we need to drop the Accord out of the discussion about now; its not really relevant to most people shopping the Mazda 3/ Honda Civic, and we owe it to them to get back to facts and opinions about those cars.
Thanks for the little "mini-debate" though, herrkaleu, as I'm glad to see some people that can debate ideas and not make it personal, as so many tend to do.
#447 of 1338 Re: Mazda3 Vs. Honda Civic [thegraduate]
Feb 20, 2006 (5:23 pm)
(in which both blow Mazda out of the Water (show me a 40 mpg Mazda).
Last I saw the Civic gets 38mpg. and the 3 "i" get's 35mpg. I don't think that constitutes "blowing the Mazda3 out of the water"
Wow; who made you Mister subjective? The Mazda is nice looking if you like a flat, unstyled rear and a bulbous nose.
I really don't see much more in rear styling of the Civic, or the Saturn-like front end.
I suppose Mazda offers several options not offered on Civic; but in the same respect, I'm still waiting on a Hybrid 3. How about a coupe model? How about anything over 30 mpg in town? Nothing? Ok. Write back next year when you have the Mazdaspeed 3, then we'll have something to talk about.
Well, Mazda3 is available in a 5-door, and the Civic is not. I also believe there is a 3 coupe (Mazda Axcela?) in Europe, unfortunalty not here . I don't think we will see a 3 Hybrid anytime soon...that sucks too.
PS: Whose 3-door Mazda did you drive? I've never seen one.
Mazda used to make the MX-3. Which was a 2 door hatch based off the 323. If Mazda were to make a Mazda3 coupe again, it will be called the MX-3, again. "MX" stands for 2 door piston engine cars built by Mazda. "RX" refers to rotary powered. "CX" refers to crossover vehicles, and "MAZDA+#" is a piston driven sedan.
#448 of 1338 Re: Mazda3 Vs. Honda Civic [aviboy97]
Feb 20, 2006 (7:04 pm)
Check the numbers, the Automatic Civic gets 40mpg on the highway. 5 mpg in the economy class is a good bit, IMO. Plus, if you are touting the superior powered 3s (as many do when trying to bash the Civic as being underpowered), the deficit drops to a whopping 9 miles to the gallon. The Civic will give you an extra ninety miles for every 10 gallon fillup. To me, that's four round trips to school (because I drive on the interstate most of the trip).
I know about the past Mazda coupes, MX-3, MX-6 (Ford Probe) and the like. I meant current automobiles. The Civic has a 5-door in Europe, so I'd call it a wash if you are comparing Euro models too.
I don't need a history of the Mazda, btw. I have had a subscription of Road and Track, Motor Trend, and/or Car and Driver for ten years. I know a few things about cars, Mazdas and others.
#449 of 1338 Mazda3 i Touring Vs Honda Civic Hybrid
Feb 21, 2006 (11:05 am)
I decided to do a comparo between the Mazda3 i Touring and the Honda Civic Hybrid.
To packaged both out to be as similar as possible. I did the Mazda3 i Touring with an automatic transmission, 6CD/moon roof package, ABS/SAB/SAC package and wheel locks. Price with destination was $18,775
The Honda Civic Hybrid was packaged with an automatic transmission (I think thats standard), and the 8 CD package and wheel locks. Price including destination was $23,023.
Now, without adding state sales tax, or motor vehicle fees, or dealer fees the the difference in price from MSRP to MSRP is $4,248. If I take that number, I can buy, according to todays gas price of $2.28/gallon, 1863 gallons of gas to equal the price of the Honda Civic Hybrid. That 1863 gallons of gas will get me 63,342 miles on the Mazda3 i Touring on the highway. If I were to go around town it would be 48,438. I do a combo of both, so I made a median number of 55,890 miles.
I drive close to 12k miles a year. I would get little over 4 1/2 years of driving the Mazda3 to equal the initial cost of the Honda Civic Hybrid.
Not calculated was owner maintenance, oil changes, tire replacement, and any other necessary owner maintenance, or fuel consumption of the hybrid in that 4 1/2 years. Also not calculated was the inflation price of gasoline over the next 4 1/2 years, for I have no way of knowing that.
This is just my perspective of how a hybrid would not be a really good decision if I were considering these two vehicles.
I am neither a Honda Civic owner, nor a Mazda3 owner.
#450 of 1338 Re: Mazda3 i Touring Vs Honda Civic Hybrid [aviboy97]
Feb 21, 2006 (12:31 pm)
No surprise here. I don't think a hybrid can make financial sense for anyone driving only 12k miles a year, if they would buy a compact car instead of the hybrid.
#451 of 1338 Re: Mazda3 i Touring Vs Honda Civic Hybrid [aviboy97]
Feb 21, 2006 (3:37 pm)
I don't know of anyone saying it was VERY cost effective to buy a hybrid, but for those who drive their Hondas forever (like me), it would make a difference over the years.
The majority of this forum is probably interested in comparing the 4-door conventional versions of the cars, though, since that's the only models they have in common. A Civic hybrid would be better compared to a Prius, and a 3 5-Door is best compared with a Toyota Matrix, etc...
Thanks for some interesting info on the subject, though.
#452 of 1338 Re: Mazda3 i Touring Vs Honda Civic Hybrid [thegraduate]
Feb 21, 2006 (4:14 pm)
oh, I def. agree. A more accurate comparo would be the Prius Vs the Civic Hybrid. I personally do not like the Prius, I would buy the Civic instead. I was just doing some research on the topic, because some people may shop the two. My initial thinking was that it would not be that different, but it was.
I personally would not buy a hybrid, but, what I really like about Honda is that they incorporated it into one of their best sellers, instead of creating a whole new vehicle, like Toyota did with the Prius. Toyota then followed suit with Highlander Hybrid, and soon to be Camry Hybrid.
Another thing about the Civic Hybrid, what's up with the funny wheels? Was there an issue using the wheels from the LX or EX?
#453 of 1338 Re: Mazda3 Vs. Honda Civic [thegraduate]
Feb 21, 2006 (5:05 pm)
The Accord I'm talking about actually is an LX (at least that's what it says at the back..). It is the current model w/o Alloy wheels, no CD changer.. don't know the exact age... it has about 9000 miles, so it can't be that old. So I guess ist was way more expensive than our Mazda 3 5-door (which we bought including Wisconsin 5.5 sales tax, title, fees, moonroof/6 CD-changer, Xenon, tire pressure monitor, 17" alloy wheels, ABS/SAB package.... for 20100 $.. does Honda even offer Xenon and TPMS?)
By the way, the rear window antenna is bad.. even outside the reception sometimes is bad. The "real" antenna on the Mazda even allows decent radio in our armored concrete uderground parking.....
I didn't mean to say the Accord is noisy (since the engine cruises and accelerates well at 15000 rpm.... nice job), but someone said the mazda would be... which is wrong. both engines are fine. I suppose I'd love either one in either car.
Still, if you love big sedans, the accord is fine..
Let's drop the Accord... it was just an idea of me to compare the Mazda (and it reaches in that class of cars...somehow).
Since we look for a second car, I'd consider a Civic (that's why I test drove one) I could live with the higer price and the design (though I don't love it). Since we have the Mazda 5-door our secondary car can be a sedan (we need at least one car that can carry something bulky). The overall quality and economy would make me get one.... but, do I want to look at a speedometer that looks like "back to the future"? That is so GM in hte 90's (even GM dropped that)
(for the same reason I never buy a Toyota Yaris with Speedometer in the center....)
I know it is taste and subjective.... but still ugly to me and my wife.
As far as the hybrid goes, as long as they still use batteries that age, lose efficience and capacity, you will have expensive repairs and lose mileage over time.
The fact that Mazda needs more fuel is more related to the more powerful engine than to the efficency of the enginge. I wish Mazda offered their smaller engines in the US (like the 1.6 l in Europe etc...) or the 2.0 l in the 5-door (which still would enable me to zoom zoom..... A better Gear adjustement for the 5th gear could improve highway economy by 2-3 miles easily w/o altering the engine.
So, technically they have the ability to compete w/ Honda mileagewise, but don't do so (which is more the fault of the American public that wants more power than economy...)
anyway, both are great cars, depending on what you are looking for... as long as you stick to Toyota, Honda, Mazda.... you are not too wrong and won't regret buying them (if you decided what you are looking for in a car)
We personally wanted a hatchback, and the Mazda is cheaper than the Matrix, better (no dead spots!) and way less expensive than any other hatchback (which mostly is a SUV etc.) Wish Toyota and Honda would bring over their civic Hatchbacks, Corolla Hatchback and Wagon... then I might "cheat on" Mazda.... but not for a sedan
And having a car that we love, and intend to keep for years... for that I give up some gallons of gas. We keep the car till it dies.. that saves us more money than just some gas. Again, if Honda ever drops the digital speedometer, or/and brings the hatchback we might change our minds.....
By the way: I also considered Corallas... but they are not available w/ ABS or side airbags (not in reality.. only on special order... that tells you what Toyota thinks of safety
hope honda's safety for everyone forces everyone else to offer safety...
#454 of 1338 Re: Mazda3 Vs. Honda Civic [herrkaleu]
Feb 21, 2006 (5:46 pm)
There is one thing the Mazda3 doesn't offer that the Accord has, a 244hp V6 engine! Oh, and space, comfort etc.
Just went to the auto show. Looked at two of these cars very closely. I felt more comfortable in the Civic, especially in the back seat. The leg room in the Mazda's rear seat was quite tight. The front seats were also less comfortable IMO. I really like the 3's styling both inside and out. I like the Civic's styling, but the front is still a little odd. The interior is also still odd, but I've grown to like it.
#455 of 1338 Re: Mazda3 Vs. Honda Civic [herrkaleu]
Feb 21, 2006 (7:50 pm)
I'm not going to take that conversation on the Accord any further...I just wanted to say that I wish my Accord accelerated to 15,000 rpms like the one you drove!
I'm just kidding, I know it was a typo.
But seriously, my gf bought (her parents did,actually) a Corolla w/SAB and ABS right off of the lot.
As far as the strange wheels on the Hybrid (vs. LX or EX) go, they are very aerodynamic, and much lighter than steel or alloy wheels on LX and EX Civics.