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Honda Civic vs Mazda3

1338 messages,  Last post on Jun 09, 2010 at 8:42 PM

You are in the Honda Civic Forum.

What is this discussion about? Honda Civic, Mazda MAZDA3, Sedan

Messages Page 3 of 134

#20 of 1338 Resale value by allfiredup

Dec 27, 2005 (3:49 pm)

I did compared an '04 Civic EX 4-door with an '04 Mazda3 s 4-door and here is what I found using Edmunds TMV-
   
        Price New Private Party/% Dealer Retail/%
   
Mazda3 $16,615 $13,546/82% $15,542/93%
   
Civic $17,260 $14,272/83% $16,176/94%
   
The verdict- the Mazda3 loses no more than 1% more of its value than the Civic. That translates into less than $200.
Resale value is NOT a valid argument in the Civic vs. Mazda3 battle!
  
You can say this, and quote KBB and all the others. The only thing that matters though is what someone actually GOT for their car, not what they were supposed to be able to get. I equate this to the antiques/fine art business in a sense. Have you ever watched the antiques roadshow? I have, and used to be quite active in art/collectible markets. I personally know some of the experts that have done the appraisals for the roadshow. Some are more realistic than others, but the bottom line is that their appraisals mean nothing. The only number that matters is what someone is willing to pay for a particular item (or vehicle), NOT what the appraisal is. My 2000 Hyundai Elantra wagon had an appraisal of around $7,000 when I sold it in 2004 (to buy my '04 Civic), but the dealer wanted to give me $1,800 in trade in! I finally struggled and sold the darn thing for $3,650 (and I TRIED). So go ahead and quote all the websites that you want to, but I won't be listening until someone shows me what they GOT for their car on the fair market because that's the only thing that matters. On the other hand, my 2004 Civic (according to KBB) was supposed to be worth $9,730 trade in, $11,255 private party but I got $11,900 on the TRADE IN, from a dealer (this was a 5-speed with 41,000 miles on it). I don't see the Mazda living up to that, period.
 
There is obviously no point in continuing to debate resale value if you refuse to believe the actual trade publications that quote said values. Edmunds TMV in particular is complied from "real world" pricing.
 
It's obvious that you prefer the Civic over the Mazda3 and I have absolutely no problem with that at all. Honda is projecting sales of about 300,000 this year while Mazda only plans to sell about 100,000 3s. There are more Civic buyers than 3 buyers out there. I'm proud to be a member of the minority.

#21 of 1338 Re: Ah yes, the usual Honda rebuttal. [warner] by gosteelerz

Dec 27, 2005 (4:19 pm)

Replying to: warner (Dec 27, 2005 2:33 pm)
Twelve feet can't put you anywhere you weren't already if you're sitting still. If you are approaching an intersection at 60mph and wait until the last possible second to brake, yeah....you lose 12 feet. Is that a realistic real-world scenario? I'll let you decide. As far as visibility issues, I have not noticed any in the Civic. About the only visibility related issue that I can comment on is that the outside mirrors appear to get dirty quicker than I remember on other cars. It could be this crappy weather that we've been getting fairly consistently here in Chicago....not sure. The pillars are never a visibility factor for me, though.
 
I agree with you that the likelyhood of 12 ft saving your bacon is remote. By the same token, the odds of you getting into accident where a SAB would make a difference is remote as well. You could get into a fairly minor impact where you escape unhurt in either vehicle or you could be t-boned by an Escalade do 55 mph and end up in a pine box no matter what. Only something in between those 2 scenarios will SAB's be of any value.
My biggest safety concern is when my kids get to that age when they or their friends get a driver's license. That is something truly to be afraid of.
 
That possible. I'm not sure what last year's numbers were. I know that I got a lifetime average (over 41,000 miles) on my 2004 Civic of 35mpg. But we aren't comparing previous models, we're comparing the new models, like the comparison that they did.
 
We both drive the predecessor the respective vehicles in this comparo. IMO they did not make any significant improvements to yours, save for the SAB's and possibly handling. I think yours is better looking and it definitely has a nicer interior. Mazda improved greatly on my car in every respect and raised the bar in this segment. Honda used to be the cutting edge in technology now they seem to content to minimally improve on the status-quo.

#22 of 1338 Exactly what I think most people expected... by canadianbacon

Dec 27, 2005 (5:28 pm)

There's not much surprise in this comparison at all. The Mazda trounces the Civic, for all the reasons that could be expected: performance, and subjective biases.
 
I have two good friends; one bought a 3 hatchback a year ago (2005 model, with a four-speed auto), and one just recently bought a Civic Sedan EX with a standard. And in all reality, the differences between the cars are just as obvious and clear as Edmunds made them out to be. Here's a recap:
- The 3 performs better, in all categories. Important for people who care about performance.
- The Civic gets better mileage. Important for commuters and the like.
- Both cars hold resale values fairly well (obviously the Civic slightly more) - the friend who bought a 3 hatchback got an offer of about 20,000 for her car, from a dealer. For a year old car. Supposedly demand for used 3's are fairly high. (She paid 23,000 - these are Canadian figures by the way)
 
But here's the silly thing: the downfalls of each can be combatted by simply switching models. If you want a sportier Civic, get the coupe, which weighs less, has a slightly firmer damping, and when paired with a stick, is nearly as fun to drive as any 3. If you want a 3 with better fuel economy, step down to the 3i with the smaller engine, get the standard, and if driven properly, you'll be beating the Civic's fuel economy numbers. However, any such switch obviously changes the fundamentals of the car. The coupe doesn't have nearly as much interior space as the sedan, and is barely tolerable for carpooling. The 3i, even with the standard, can no longer out-accelerate all other economy sedans, especially Cobalts and Ions; whereas the 3s can.
 
With these performance and performance-related (Mileage) problems addressed, it simply comes down to the intangibles of styling, feel, and the car's suiting to your needs. If you commute a long distance, you like "futuristic" styling, and a bit of body roll doesn't bother you, the Civic is clearly the winner; if you drive ten minutes to work, prefer more traditional styling, and love the feeling of ringing out your car on an empty stretch of road, then the 3 is the clear winner. It really isn't anything technical or spectacular here.
 
In my experiences as both a driver and passenger in both cars, the 3 is my obvious choice, despite the added safety of the Civic, which is the only real place where the Civic has the 3 beat hands-down. The only thing that can make a car truly safe however, is the driver, and all modern cars are at least acceptably decent at protecting safe drivers from the unsafe ones. That's what legislation is for - remember, most car companies complained about having to fit cars with seatbelts.
 
In any case, the 3 is simply sportier, the Civic more economical; though when I graduate from University this summer, I'm not entirely sure which one I'll be going for. Most likely a Civic LX coupe, simply because I don't plan on taking many passengers along for my ride, and I also want the exceptional fuel economy of the Civic's engine. Besides, any performance gap between the Civic and the Mazda can be recouperated in aftermarket parts. At least I hope.

#23 of 1338 Re: Exactly ... [canadianbacon] by autonomous

Dec 27, 2005 (6:55 pm)

Replying to: canadianbacon (Dec 27, 2005 5:28 pm)
Insightful commentary.
 
The only thing that can make a car truly safe however, is the driver, and all modern cars are at least acceptably decent at protecting safe drivers from the unsafe ones. That's what legislation is for - remember, most car companies complained about having to fit cars with seatbelts.
Yes, ultimately, cars are in the hands of drivers but driving is more of a social than an individual activity. Social as in "involving others". So, we buckle up and don't drink, we agonize about the emissions our machines expel into the air, we try sharing our patch of road with others who either plod or boogie, and we say a prayer for those fixing a flat in the dark. Furthermore, your comments about private car companies and government legislation confirm your understanding of the involvement of other players. Happy trails in 06.

#24 of 1338 save yourselves a grand or three by harrychezt

Dec 27, 2005 (8:20 pm)

and buy a Scion tC! we test drove the 05? mazda 3 in Sept of 05.... then drove the Scion. base engine for the 3...No Comparison.
Madza with the Escort engine was nearly 20K loaded for almost same things we got on our tC for 17,199! Same goes for the currently new civic!
Sunroof,cd player, 6 way seats, (reclining rear seats!), hatchback(new civic got rid of the coupes 3 door versatility... what a waste of good usable space to haul stuff, when you have a coupe/trunk combo, to me, anyways...may as well get the sedan, then, if you are getting a trunk).
We saved nearly 2,700 on 3 vs tC in 05, not to mention the taxes on that extra 2,700,about another 140 dollars=3,840, plus financing..... around 3,500 more?
 
Not bashing the cars, just saying, unless you must have a certain style, or "mpg"(gimme fun... we get 34mpg after 30K miles on tC, automatic) 160HP, and do not have to pay a premium to get "the best engine".
Civic with sunroof,etc, nearly 20K msrp, and last I checked, same for mazda3....are they good? Yes? Are they 2-4K better? depends on if 3-5 mpg makes the deal or breaks it for you all.
The 3 looks best , i will admit, but test drive all 3...you'll see(all 3 at the tC's price level, w/o extras. you get more with the Scion , for the price).
take Care/Not Offense.
 
PS: Civic 140HP, and 40 mpg. Mazda 3 has what now, 150 and 160 hp engines to choose from? Both over 19K loaded like a tC at 17,499(now)?
 
All 3 are good. we just thought the tC was less NVH than the (old?) base mazda 3, and the new civic was not out yet(and even if it were, we would not pay nearly 20K for one, just to get cruise and sunroof).
 

#25 of 1338 that 34mpg i noted by harrychezt

Dec 27, 2005 (8:24 pm)

is true, on 05 tC, if you mainly drive hwy(ours is 70% hwy, 30% city mix).
Just to clarify.
worst we got was 29MPG first 5000 miles.... after that, it improved over the miles.
 
Again, not bashing Mazda 3 or Civic: Just saying, for the amount of cash, buying a car "as is"(without modifying it with aftermarket parts, either through th dealerships, or on your own), the tC is the price champ, and a good vehicle.
TC/NO

#26 of 1338 Re: Resale value [allfiredup] by warner

Dec 27, 2005 (8:54 pm)

Replying to: allfiredup (Dec 27, 2005 3:49 pm)
There is obviously no point in continuing to debate resale value if you refuse to believe the actual trade publications that quote said values. Edmunds TMV in particular is complied from "real world" pricing.
 
Agreed. I do not believe in "book" pricing. It doesn't hold water in any type of medium that I've ever dealt in, and I've seen it not hold water in particular with cars. I've seen it firsthand with my Hyundai and my Honda, working in opposite directions. If you trust the books, I've got some Hummels to sell you......book prices on them are easily 4 times what you could expect to get for them if you tried to sell them. Show me some auction prices from actual auto auctions....THOSE numbers actually mean something. In fact, eBay is not a bad place to get an idea of what market value is for any given item. How do the eBay numbers stack up when you compare the two vehicles? (I haven't checked, so maybe the 3's are bringing MORE than the Civics...and if this is the case, I WILL believe those numbers, because they actually mean something.).
 
                     Warner

#27 of 1338 Re: Ah yes, the usual Honda rebuttal. [gosteelerz] by warner

Dec 27, 2005 (9:08 pm)

Replying to: gosteelerz (Dec 27, 2005 4:19 pm)
I agree with you that the likelyhood of 12 ft saving your bacon is remote. By the same token, the odds of you getting into accident where a SAB would make a difference is remote as well. You could get into a fairly minor impact where you escape unhurt in either vehicle or you could be t-boned by an Escalade do 55 mph and end up in a pine box no matter what. Only something in between those 2 scenarios will SAB's be of any value.
My biggest safety concern is when my kids get to that age when they or their friends get a driver's license. That is something truly to be afraid of.
 
I'll respond by asking two questions.
 
1 - If you found yourself in a situation where you HAD to be in one of the cars while an Escalade hit you at 55mph, which one would you pick?
 
2 - Which one would you want your kids or your wife to be driving?
 
We both drive the predecessor the respective vehicles in this comparo. IMO they did not make any significant improvements to yours, save for the SAB's and possibly handling. I think yours is better looking and it definitely has a nicer interior. Mazda improved greatly on my car in every respect and raised the bar in this segment. Honda used to be the cutting edge in technology now they seem to content to minimally improve on the status-quo.
 
Actually, I'm driving a 2006 Civic EX so either you misunderstood what I'm driving or I did a poor job of explaining it. That aside, I beg to differ that the new Civic does not have any significant improvements. It's probably the MOST improved vehicle for 2006. I'm rather surprised that you feel it hasn't had any significant improvements. Comparing it to the 2004 that I traded in on it, it's a different (read BETTER) car completely. It's quieter, nicer inside and out, wider, longer (read Rides much nicer, like a larger car because it IS a larger car), and has several added safety features. I opted for the EX model, but all the way down to the lowest optioned model, they ALL have anti-lock brakes, passive head restraint, and more airbags than you can shake a stick at. How are these "not significant"?
 
                Warner

#28 of 1338 Unfair comparison by xqu

Dec 27, 2005 (9:14 pm)

As much as I respect edmunds' test results, I just can't say it's fair. Appearantly, the performance weights much more than economy in this ECONOMY SEDAN comparison. They should really use the Mazda 3i with the 2.0L engine to compare with the Civic, they are closer match in price and performance.
 
Or better yet, wait for the Civic Si sedan comes out next year then compare it with the Mazda 3S.

#29 of 1338 Re: save yourselves a grand or three [harrychezt] by allfiredup

Dec 27, 2005 (9:53 pm)

Replying to: harrychezt (Dec 27, 2005 8:20 pm)
The Scion is an undeniably good value, but your figures don't represent the actual pricing differences compared to the Mazda3.
 
Scion prices are NOT negotiable, much like Saturn. You have to pay sticker price. Currently, most Mazda3's can be had for $1000-1500 off sticker. Also, the number you're using to compare prices is the fully loaded GT model tested which includes many features not available on the Scion.
 
Here's a more realistic view-
 
Scion tC- MSRP-$17,390, TMV-$17,390
Mazda3 i Touring- MSRP-$17,835, TMV-$17,121
Mazda3 s- MSRP-$18,575, TMV-$17,617
*added moonroof/6CD and ABS/side airbags to Mazdas
 
The Edmunds TMV values are often very conservative, as evidenced in the Mazda3: Prices Paid forum. I bought a 3 s 5-door two weeks ago for almost $1500 under sticker. It is reasonable to expect that the 3 s could be had for under $17,000.
 
Also, the Scion is only available as a two door, which significantly reduces its potential audience. I remember reading that under 1/3 of '06 Civics sold will be Coupes.

Messages Page 3 of 134

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