Last post on Dec 24, 2008 at 9:27 AM
You are in the Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions
This discussion is ARCHIVED. To reactivate the discussion, post a request in the Lost? Ask the Hybrids Host for directions! discussion.
What is this discussion about?
Hybrid Cars, Fuel Efficiency (MPG)
Hypermilers: Breaking the 100-MPG Barrier -Kelly is using one of the techniques of "hypermiling," the fine art of wringing the greatest fuel economy possible from a vehicle through a selection of clever driving techniques. The 100-mpg barrier is the elusive goal. (more)
#9 of 48 Re: Hybrids and Hypermiling - A Help or a Hazard? [zodiac2004]
Dec 22, 2005 (3:02 pm)
Zodiac that's just silly.
1.Who would go 20MPH under flow?
In a 70 limit would be 50,
50 would be 30,
45 would be 25.
2. Going 20 over the limit is extremely dangerous and will land you in jail in many areas.
You'd be driving 90 in a 70,
70 in a 50
65MPH in 45 (65MPH on residential streets not dangerous???)
(I truly hope you don't drive like that- although some still try it)
I'm not sure if you are aware but slower traffic stays right.
Which means the Left lane is the fastest, the next lane to the Right is a little slower, the next lane to the right of that is a little slower, etc.
You must be judging your traffic flow based on the far Left lane of a 5-7 lane freeway.
The far Left lanes in my Atlanta area flow at about 75MPH. (65 Limit 5 lane)
General traffic flow in the Right lane is about 58.
If you attempt to go your 85-95MPH in the right lane you'll hurt people or worse. You won't be able to swerve fast enough.
It's not the people causing the wreck minding their own business in the Right, but the speeders who need to swerve to maintain their gamebox type thrill.
And last, If the person in the far right lane gets gently passed 5 times over 20 miles of road, while the 85-95 MPH driver needs to aggressively swerve around 40 other speeders then who is creating a more dangerous situation?
Who will the side of the law be on when a wreck happens?
#10 of 48 Speed variation not so much a problem....
Dec 22, 2005 (3:06 pm)
This one attacks the "speed variation as the problem" question:
3. Isn't speed variation — not high speed— the real problem? No. Both variation and speed are important. Although research conducted in the 1950s on two-lane rural roads did indicate that vehicles traveling much faster or much slower than average were more likely to be involved in crashes,6 that study also showed that severe crashes increased with speed. The risk of death and severe injury is a direct exponential function of speed, not speed differences. Many differences in travel speeds are unavoidable because of the slower speeds of turning or merging vehicles. Higher speeds of the other vehicles exacerbate this problem. Besides, many crashes, and nearly half of those resulting in occupant deaths, are single-vehicle impacts in which differences among vehicle speeds play no role or only a very minor one.
#11 of 48 Hybrids a Hazard or a Help?
Dec 22, 2005 (5:04 pm)
Following the hybrid threads has led me to several conclusions. Hybrid drivers are a strange breed. I would say from the posts that a big share buy the hybrid to take advantage of the HOV lanes in CA & VA, the first and second highest sales states for hybrids. Then you have the cultish group that refer to themselves as "Hypermilers". Now if those are not strange bedfellows I don't know what would be. You have hybrid drivers that want to blast down the HOV lanes of the freeway to save a couple minutes of time getting to work. They really could care less if the car gets 12 MPG it gets them a "PASS" into the "LANE".
Now the Hypermilers. They feel it is there god given right to drive whatever way they want as long as they save 2 cents worth of gas on their trip to work and back.
How does Joe Public view both groups.
I would imagine if I was a commuter with one or two passengers in my carpool, watching all the hybrids with one person, it would tick me off. To toss fuel on the fire they give you a big sign that says hybrid car. That means I don't have to conserve fuel by taking more than one passenger. I got a pass because some lame brain politicians do not understand the concept of car pooling is to ease congestion, not save someone gas money.
I can tell you they hate the guy in front of them creeping along to save a few pennies on gas. Probably making the comment to whoever he is talking to on the phone that, "some jerk in a hybrid is tying up the freeway".
So if I was the average person on the highway encountering a hybrid I would probably consider them a hazard. I am sure most of the hybrids do not have a big HOV sticker. I have not seen one in San Diego. And I have been passed at high speed by a Prius. I have only been held up once by an Escape Hybrid on a steep grade in rush hour traffic. I formed my opinion of the Ford Hybrid, at that time. Not enough power to get out of it's own way.
Or was it a goofy hypermiler?
#12 of 48 Re: Hybrids a Hazard or a Help? [gagrice]
Dec 22, 2005 (6:56 pm)
There is a flaw in your analogy of hypermilers:
They're not going slow, bottling up traffic or causing trouble.
"I formed my opinion of the Ford Hybrid, at that time. Not enough power to get out of it's own way.
Or was it a goofy hypermiler?"
This afternoon I passed a new looking Jetta tooling along in the Right lane. Everyone else had to pass him too.
Since it wasn't a hypermiler, it must either lack the power to overcome the hills in our area or the proverbial grandma driver.
One thing I noticed when gas was +3.00/g- many people simply driving slowly thinking they're saving on gas.
I always found it aggravating to get stuck behind them, especially when it was detrimental to economy.
Is this what you call a "hypermiler" or just a slow driver?
You see grandma with nose stuck on the glass bottling things up and report this as a hypermiler.
#13 of 48 Re: Hybrids a Hazard or a Help? [misterme]
Dec 22, 2005 (9:08 pm)
You see grandma with nose stuck on the glass bottling things up and report this as a hypermiler.
I don't think I would mistake the one for the other. I was stuck today at 30 MPH in a 45 zone behind an older woman that was too busy talking to her friend to be aware of her obstructing traffic. You have never advocated blocking traffic in the pursuit of better mileage. On the other side larsb has said many times it was best for the environment and his right to go slower if he felt it best suited his mileage.
So we have different approaches to hypermiling. You have mentioned you never thought it possible to get great mileage until you owned the HCH. I cannot fault you for that. A lot of people could save a lot of gas using your techniques.
My point is if the hybrids are to become popular the two mentioned stumbling blocks set up by the early hybrid adopters will have to be overcome. Once a stigma is attached it is difficult to remove it.
I hear more negative than positive remarks regarding hybrids.
#14 of 48 Re: Speed negates other safety changes.... [larsb]
Dec 23, 2005 (7:30 am)
"Speeding is a major factor in about one-third of the 42,000 U.S. traffic deaths each year, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration says."
That means that two-thirds ( 67 percent) of traffic deaths are not caused by speeding.
Hypermilers are a defintie HAZARD especailly if they are in one of the leftmost lane.
However, last night I saw something worse, in the leftmost lane was a car going 20 mph under the speed limit, But it was okay becuase he/she had their hazard lights on. Maybe it should be a requirement that all hypermilers drive with their hazard ligths on, especailly if their chosen speed is substantially slower that the ambient traffic.
Cheers and Mery Christmas,
P.S. - HOV means high occupancy, not high miles per gallon and HOVs are intended to facilitate traffic movement not to hypermile it down to a turtle's pace!
#15 of 48 Re: Speed negates other safety changes.... [midnightcowboy]
Dec 23, 2005 (7:45 am)
HOV means high occupancy
Do you agree that the access to HOV lanes by single occupant hybrids gives them a negative appearance? Along with the possible obstruction of traffic.
#16 of 48 HOV lanes were allowing CNG cars way before Hybrids
Dec 23, 2005 (7:50 am)
quote midcow-"P.S. - HOV means high occupancy, not high miles per gallon and HOVs are intended to facilitate traffic movement not to hypermile it down to a turtle's pace!"-end quote
HOV lanes were allowing CNG vehicles and motorcycles LONG before anyone ever thought of encouraging hybrid purchases by granting HOV lane rights to owners of hybrid vehicles.
The single driver HOV privilege is about "doing the right thing for clean air" and it has been all along, before hybrids even.
Anything governments can do to increase ownership of CNG vehicles, HEVs, EVs, Fuel Cell, anything other than a straight gas or dirty diesel vehicles, it's good for ALL OF US in the long run.
#17 of 48 Re: HOV lanes were allowing CNG cars way before Hybrids [larsb]
Dec 23, 2005 (8:22 am)
HOV lanes were allowing CNG vehicles
Another lame brain political fiasco. I doubt in all CA there are 1000 private CNG vehicles using the HOV lanes. Over 40k hybrids have been sold in CA. There is a limit of 75K HOV permits to be issued. How does that cut down on congestion on the freeways? As has already been experienced in VA it has made the congestion worse. Leave the car pool lanes to car poolers "ONLY". You think it is great. I can tell you it will have a negative impact on the image of hybrids and hybrid owners.
There is no way two single occupant hybrids traveling 75 MPH in the HOV lane is better for the environment than two people in a Camry getting 30 MPG in the HOV lane.
#18 of 48 This belongs in the HYBRIDS AND HOV LANES not here....
Dec 23, 2005 (8:49 am)
quote gagrice-There is no way two single occupant hybrids traveling 75 MPH in the HOV lane is better for the environment than two people in a Camry getting 30 MPG in the HOV lane.-end quote
that's not the point. The point is that every AT-PZEV Prius/HCH on the road that WAS going to be a SULEV or ULEV car is a benefit. That's the point entirely - ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO BUY AND DRIVE CLEANER CARS.