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Honda Accord (1994-1997) Maintenance and Repair

1849 messages,  Last post on Apr 30, 2013 at 8:06 PM

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Messages Page 185 of 186

#1836 of 1849 Re: replace manual transmission with automatic in 95 Accord Sedan? [jimdempster] by jhrost

Jan 15, 2013 (10:26 am)

Replying to: jimdempster (Jan 14, 2013 9:52 pm)
Thanks for the additional insights. I'd certainly like to continue my relationship with this car if at all possible. I guess it depends then whether my foot gets better (hopefully) and/or I can apply the suggestions and advice which have been given to get to a point where use of the clutch doesn't irritate my foot as much. I have an 09 Accord which replaced this one as the main car
and the clutch on that one doesn't cause as much of problem for my foot, though I do still kind of feel it).
 
To address an earlier question, there has been no grinding of gears or other noise, and gear shifts take place successfully and without any slipping. Moving the shifter seems more rigid or less fluid than it once was, but it has never failed to shift gears while the car is in motion. The only time I have had a temporary difficulty in shifting into gear is when starting up in the morning or for the first time in the day, usually on cold days. I have just attributed this to the cold and the "old girl" being a bit "arthritic" due to age. After no more than a few attempts everything works ok. This doesn't happen all the time - most of the time it doesn't occur.
 
Truthfully, if service personnel hadn't mentioned something to the effect that the transmission would likely fail, I wouldn't have suspected something of the sort. Makes me wonder on what they based these predictions (the cars were in for routine servicing or for other issues, not anything clutch or transmission-related).

#1837 of 1849 Re: replace manual transmission with automatic in 95 Accord Sedan? [jhrost] by MrShift@Edmunds HOST

Jan 15, 2013 (5:41 pm)

Replying to: jhrost (Jan 15, 2013 10:26 am)
They base their predictions on the crystal ball they have at their shop, naturally.
 
Sounds like a dose of synthetic transmission fluid might just perk up the old car, especially in the cold weather.
 
As for the clutch, that should/could be tested by an experienced mechanic.
 
Is there "free play"--that is, how far down can you push the pedal with 2 fingers before you meet resistance (measure in inches or fractions of an inch)
 
If you deliberately went up a slight hill in 5th gear and low RPMs, thereby lugging the engine and making the car struggle, would the clutch slip on you?

#1838 of 1849 Re: replace manual transmission with automatic in 95 Accord Sedan? [Mr_Shiftright] by omarr

Jan 15, 2013 (7:21 pm)

Replying to: MrShift@Edmunds (Jan 15, 2013 5:41 pm)
I believe the clutch is hydraulic slave and master cylinder.
 
If either one is failing the clutch may not be releasing correctly.
This will cause the transmission to be hard shift in gear. this will eventually destroy the synchronizers

#1839 of 1849 Re: replace manual transmission with automatic in 95 Accord Sedan? [Mr_Shiftright] by jhrost

Jan 15, 2013 (8:45 pm)

Replying to: MrShift@Edmunds (Jan 15, 2013 5:41 pm)
If I push down on it with 2 fingers there is resistance right off the bat, but at about 2 inches down the resistance definitely becomes more significant. Put another way I guess you could say the resistance becomes pretty significant about a third of the way down, but I probably still could have pushed it a bit further with the fingers.
 
I can try the hill/5th gear test tomorrow when it's light. Do I try to shift to a lower gear at some point while going up, or just see what happens in 5th gear? And to make sure that I am understanding slippage in the same way you are, what should I be experiencing if the clutch does slip?
 
My conception of slippage is that essentially the car seemingly goes into neutral and the engine starts to race, but the car won't stall like it would if the gears were still engaged - am I understanding that correctly? or do I have that wrong?

#1840 of 1849 Re: replace manual transmission with automatic in 95 Accord Sedan? [jhrost] by MrShift@Edmunds HOST

Jan 15, 2013 (9:29 pm)

Replying to: jhrost (Jan 15, 2013 8:45 pm)
Yep that's slippage---if your car does that, your clutch is pretty much toast anyway.
 
As for free play in the clutch, there should be perhaps 1 to 1 & 1/2" of pretty much no resistance. You should be able to press it down with your pinkie finger.

#1841 of 1849 Re: replace manual transmission with automatic in 95 Accord Sedan? [jhrost] by jimdempster

Jan 16, 2013 (1:29 am)

Replying to: jhrost (Jan 15, 2013 10:26 am)
Ok, if the shift is difficult when cold, you need to try a lower viscosity oil in the transmission. The manual (if I recall correctly) calls for 30 weight oil. Has this oil been changed recently? While the recommended change interval is quite lengthy, there is nothing wrong with changing it sooner.
 
When my car was new, I check the oil at 30,000 miles and the transmission oil was still clear. I checked again at 80,000 miles and it was black. There is no reason for it to get black in the transmission, so obviously I had waited too long to change it. The oil should always run clear.
 
If you drain your transmission oil, check to see if it is clear - if not, then it is definitely due for a change-out. If it is black, it probably needs to be changed twice - once to get rid of the black stuff, and then again at 3000 miles to change it again.
 
The second thing to consider is using a full-synthetic oil. The 'weight' of the oil depends upon where you live and the type of driving you do. If you live in Arizona then you need a slightly thicker oil than if you live in New York.
 
Since you mention that it gets harder to shift when it is cold (it is never cold in Arizona), then you can choose to use a lighter weight synthetic oil. There are synthetic oils in the 5W-20 range that *better* film and shear strength than a petroleum 10W-30 grade (the recommended grade).
 
Why a full synthetic? Petroleum oil is a mix of heavy and light 'fractions' that 'average' to 30W. The manufacturer more tightly controls the range of viscocity in a full synthetic which means there are less 'heavy' (and less 'light') oils in the mix. Heavy grades of oil cause the gear shift to be hard to engage when cold.
 
Comparing synthetic 5w20 motor oil to a petroleum 5w30, or 10w30, will have better film and shear strength, but won't be hard to shift on a cold day. It is also the reason that a full-synthetic is more expensive because of the tighter control on the product. There are 'hybrid' products that are a mix of petroleum and synthetic - they are less expensive, but aren't what you want here. Look for the text "full synthetic" on the bottle.
 
Mobil1 is one example brand but there are others. JiffyLube doesn't generally carry these because of their expense - Wal-Mart does (in fact they have their own generic brand of full-synthetic). Why does the Honda recommend 30W? It's cheap. It may be just fine for a new car, but a high-mileage transmission may need some help.
 
What you will see is that the gear shifting will be improved (cold or hot).
 
Make sure that all the other mechanical items in the clutch mechanism are tuned up too: change out the hydraulic clutch fluid so that it is clear to help the clutch operate smoothly.
 
The clutch 'slave' cylinder connects to the clutch lever via a 'ball' type bolt. This connection needs to be greased (water proof grease is best) so that the motion is smooth. Driving through the rain tends to wash the grease away and put grit in its place (and makes noise too), so make sure this operates smoothly. The other end of the clutch lever is inside the transmission bell and it too has a connection that needs to be grease, but is very hard to get to, so I'd ignore it.
 
If you try these things you may find the clutch may operate smoothly enough to get you by. I've been driving this way for 10 years now and it is still working well.

#1842 of 1849 Re: replace manual transmission with automatic in 95 Accord Sedan? [jimdempster] by jhrost

Jan 16, 2013 (8:52 am)

Replying to: jimdempster (Jan 16, 2013 1:29 am)
Jim,
 
Looking at my records, the transmission oil was last changed in December of 2011, a bit under 5000 miles ago at Valvoline. The notation says that 10w30 conventional motor oil was used. The Valvoline web site says that they also carry Synthetic motor oil, so I can try getting that put in. I'll try to implement some of the other suggestions as well.
 
It snowed last night here in upstate NY, so I may not get get to try the slight uphill in 5th gear test until they get the road cleared off, but I will report back on the results of that as soon as I can.
 
Thanks again - you guys have gone above and beyond with your help.

#1843 of 1849 Re: replace manual transmission with automatic in 95 Accord Sedan? [Mr_Shiftright] by jhrost

Jan 17, 2013 (8:15 am)

Replying to: MrShift@Edmunds (Jan 15, 2013 9:29 pm)
I tried doing a couple of uphills at low speed in 5th gear. There didn''t seem to be any slippage. There was no racing of the engine and the car made it over the hills ... there was just the feeling that the car might stall.
 
I take it this is a good sign .... that the clutch may not be too far gone and that some of the other measures proposed, like the synthetic oil might possibly make this easier to shift then (and hopefully easier on my foot)?

#1844 of 1849 Re: replace manual transmission with automatic in 95 Accord Sedan? [jhrost] by MrShift@Edmunds HOST

Jan 17, 2013 (8:58 am)

Replying to: jhrost (Jan 17, 2013 8:15 am)
Well that tells you that the clutch DISK is not completely worn out, yes.
 
You might still have pressure plate issues, but I'd certainly try synthetic transmission oil before doing anything else.

#1845 of 1849 Re: replace manual transmission with automatic in 95 Accord Sedan? [Mr_Shiftright] by jhrost

Jan 17, 2013 (9:41 am)

Replying to: MrShift@Edmunds (Jan 17, 2013 8:58 am)
That'll be my next step. Thanks again to all who gave advice.

Messages Page 185 of 186

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