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Maintenance & Repair Winter Driving - are you prepared?
149 messages, Last post on Aug 19, 2009 at 8:38 AM
You are in the Maintenance & Repair Forum. Your Host is mr_shiftright
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Replying to: wwest (Jan 01, 2009 1:11 pm) I'm guilty of coasting down long straight hills just for the fun of it (how far can I go?) but never on an icy or snowy roads. I have an AWD car right now, but drove Saabs for many years, and a Scion xA, both FWD-ers. Touching the brakes in neutral will put you into a skid just as easily as engine compression but with ABS now the dangers are much less IMO, as the brakes do not lock (nor do the wheels lock in engine compression unless you are doing something quite radical, like downshifting to 1st gear at 40 mph). The trick of course on all slippery surfaces is "no sudden moves".
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jan 02, 2009 1:15 pm) That says it all, Shifty, on a long slippery hill it is much safer to rely on engine braking while descending than coasting in neutral. Unlike Mr. West my experience on slippery roads is not limited to the occassional ski trip as I have lived in Northern New England for 35 years and driven AWD, FWD as well as RWD cars.
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Replying to: andys120 (Jan 02, 2009 1:44 pm) Of course, if you are on a snowy road, going fast around a turn, and you lift off abruptly to avoid an animal, say....well, that could get dicey with either FWD or RWD. I'd guess that on a RWD you'd get power-off understeer, and on a FWD, power-off oversteer.
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jan 02, 2009 2:03 pm) Well that's just it, it's easier to avoid radical inputs to the drivetrain by being in the correct gear as opposed to coasting. A car in neutral will pick up speed going downhill, forcing input from the brakes to keep at a safe speed whereas it's possible by downshifting to "crawl" down at a steady speed slow enough to avoid having to brake which is the last thing you want to do. To get down the steep hill leading to my home I downshift to second or third (A/T or manual) to slow the car. I've done it everyday in all weather for 11 years without the least problem. If a person, vehicle animal or a tree limb were to force me to brake I'd be going slowly enough to smack it into a snowbank without any problems. I doubt that'd be the case if I were "freewheeling" down in neutral. I think our friend is confused because you're supposed to put a manual shift in neutral when braking on ice. That's something I've never done because I try to avoid braking on ice altogether.
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Replying to: andys120 (Jan 02, 2009 5:05 pm) It's a nice gesture, but futile, as we have all seen from those YouTube videos...the pitiless, gradual slide downward to destruction...the frantic, useless flickering of brake lights, the spinning of the steering wheel to and fro, and the car just ignoring all that input and obeying the laws of gravity, thank you very much. |
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I have owned and driven FWD RWD 4WD, and engine braking is safe with all if your skills are up to the task. With FWD (or any other) on ice, I never slam into a lower gear going down hill. Touch the gas to synchronize during the shift if a down shift is necessary, then back off the pedal slowly. Keep your foot on the pedal, and increase wheel speed if slippage starts. With FWD, the rear wheels roll free when engine braking, and are LESS likely to skid than with a RWD. If you lack the experience, practice on a large, level parking lot from moderate speeds. It does not take many tries to learn what to expect. Braking in neutral, can get you into much trouble. The ABS may release the bakes, but there may not be enough friction to start the wheels turning to regain steering. Engine power with ABS restores steering. Telling an inexperienced driver to shift into neutral may get him killed, and is totally irresponsible. Harry
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Replying to: oldharry (Jan 02, 2009 6:32 pm) So, you're saying that if the surface is so very slippery that the tire will not rotate during the period of ABS brake release then a little power application from the engine will help get it, keep it rotating...?? I would imagine should a person ever encounter a road surface THAT slippery then the primary option would be to bury the brake pedal into the floor and then hang on and pray. "I never slam into a lower gear going down hill.." Slam....??!! With an automatic transaxle just how do you "ease" into a lower gear...?? Methinks you might be thinking back to the good old clutch pedal days when "easing" into a lower gear was entirely possible. Apply even the slightest level of gas pedal pressure along with moving the shifter to select a lower gear and with most modern day automatics, especially those "coupled" with DBW, you will get a sudden burst of "acceleration", in this case MORE wheelspin. DBW programming is typically such that it will hold off on engine RPM elevation until the downshift is completed. And unless I miss my guess the programming will be such that with this set of inputs an "expectation" of quick acceleration will be the norm. |
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Replying to: oldharry (Jan 02, 2009 6:32 pm) Really...?? http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:zz1l1OUp3ysJ:www.wcpo.com/news/local/story/- Winter-Driving-Tips/IljH1zT6fEeKeAmTXrTlBw.cspx+AAA+winter+driving+fwd+neutral&h- l=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us&lr=lang_en Follow the link and read the publication. Then use the very same search terms to see just how many government agencies plus the military are recommending just that procedure. Targeting specifically toward INEXPERIENCED drivers. |
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Replying to: andys120 (Dec 18, 2008 8:46 am) NOT...!! At least not for Toyota or Lexus and likely any passenger car equipped with an automatic climate control designed by NipponDenso or Denso US. These have a serious design flaw, not only serious but potentially DANGEROUS. These are designed to rely SOLELY on the operational functionality of the A/C for dehumidifying the incoming airstream in order to prevent and/or remove interior windshield condensation. Not on point, you say... Well, yes, but.... The problem in this instance results from the fact that once the passenger cabin has been heated to within a few degrees of setpoint the airflow routed to the interior surface of the windshield will be as much as 20F BELOW the setpoint, but by Denso's desire, VERY DRY. Big deal. If you drive into and area wherein the outside of the windshield needs warming then you MUST not only switch to defrost/defog/demist mode but raise the target temperature setpoint. I would suggest raising the setpoint DRAMATICALLY, maybe even to MAX, until the icing trend has definitely been reversed. Good luck. |
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Replying to: wwest (Jan 02, 2009 8:56 pm) 1. take foot off gas as front wheels skid 2. put car in neutral 3. do not immediately steer to correct--let the car stay out of control until traction returns 4. THEN Steer in the direction you want to go 5. Then put the car in drive. YEAH RIGHT---as if the person wouldn't be in a panic by then. I mean, some of this stuff is right out of 1948. "Hang a brightly colored cloth from your antenna?" SAY WHAT?!!!
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