Last post on Sep 19, 2006 at 6:21 PM
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Sep 19, 2006 (7:56 am)
Find out the details, find out what you are criticizing before you launch into critiques . . .
#3621 of 3659 Re: Got a question for those... [rockylee]
Sep 19, 2006 (7:57 am)
Boy, that's weak...
But anyway, why does Honda all of the sudden need a turn-around? Last time I checked I think it's still one of the fastest growing auto companies in the NA market only behind Toyota, Hyundai and BMW maybe?
I think Honda is too precious to merge with anyone because like BMW it is more of an engineering-oriented company and even the thought of Honda merge with Toyota will scare the *beep* out of me.
#3622 of 3659 Re: Got a question for those... [rockylee]
Sep 19, 2006 (7:58 am)
"I believe so....R&D is the only key for survival."
Ford outspends Toyota and GM and actually the rest of the auto industry in terms of R&D.
It's the INTELLIGENT use of R&D dollars that makes the difference. Intelligent = Good Management.
#3623 of 3659 Re: Got a question for those... [rockylee]
Sep 19, 2006 (8:02 am)
Your post goes to prove my point a couple months ago that the existing management (especially at GM) probably can run the companies much better than forum yahoos who consider themselves smarter than everyone else. So far over the span of two months, we had Wagoner tarred and feathered and kicked out of the door for incompetence compared to Ford and Chrysler management and utter hopelessness when compared to that of Honda/Toyota . . . two months later, we have people advocating for Wagoner to take over both Ford and Honda and turn those companies around . . . go figure. If anyone thought the market place is fickle, political discourse is certain more whimsical.
All that hand-waving "streamlining" wishful thinking is quite meaniingless until the bean counters come up with a solid workable plan with real numbers. Real money in the market place is the only way to stop endless and pointless spins.
#3624 of 3659 Pensions and health plans
Sep 19, 2006 (8:05 am)
"The pension plan is gone for any new hires, that's a guarantee. The current pension swells will drop over the years...." - rockylee.
That isn't good enough. New hires won't retire for 30 years, so that move has little impact on the current situation. All current employees and those who are retired will continue to be a tremendous drain on GM and Ford due to the generous benefit packages. The two remaining giants made promises they can't keep. Cuts (deep cuts) are needed to the benefits provided to retirees and current employees. This is the lynch pin to recovery.
#3625 of 3659 Re: Merge and purge [corsicachevy]
Sep 19, 2006 (8:13 am)
Exactly. The generous promises extracted by metal-pipe wielding youths decades ago will simply disappear when the same youths are too old and frail to wield a metal pipe and threaten any one. Pretty sad form of human interaction on both sides.
#3627 of 3659 Re: Got a question for those... [rockylee]
Sep 19, 2006 (8:32 am)
I of course think a Honda, and GM, would be the best merge for GM's interest. I also think it could possibly be benefitual to Honda IMHO.
Honda is too smart for that. Why would Honda, or any company for that matter, want to take on the huge problems of GM? Honda and GM are very, very far apart on product strategy and management styles. Just look at Honda offerings over last 30 years vs those of GM. Count up the GM failings. Where did Honda fail?
Their philosophies are very different. Honda has emphasized engineering excellence and long term vision. Can't say the same about GM. A GM/Honda merge would be a huge distraction for Honda. Honda would have everything to lose, absolutely nothing to gain. GM would be an albatross to Honda.
Sep 19, 2006 (9:08 am)
"Pretty sad form of human interaction on both sides."- brightness.
Yup, and anyone with half a brain could have seen this coming twenty years ago. Both sides are getting exactly what they deserve. Short sighted grab happy workers and their short sighted grab happy employers rarely end up in a happy place.
#3629 of 3659 Re: Pensions and health plans [corsicachevy]
Sep 19, 2006 (10:52 am)
Anyone hired after 1999' can't get a pension. OTOH it's not final but it's looking like that anyone with 27 yrs after July 06' won't get a early out. What this means ultimately is 27 yr. employees and anyone who stayed will be subject to the new contract stipulations which I'm willing to bet won't be all that "golden" when March rolls around. Anyone with some common sense would of left. Yes, some couldn't afford to but that's their problem and will face the consequences for better or worse.
The retirees don't deserve anymore cuts. They already gave GM billions in healthcare costs by them paying a portion for there health insurance.
The company needs to hold up its end of the agreement. It's not the UAW workers faults that GM, Ford, didn't fully fund their pension obligations over the last 20 years or so.
The legacy costs will be reduced since new retirees will more than likely be on a 401K "Las Vegas" style of retirement plan. I have one currently and worked for my present employer for approx 4 years 3 months and have approx 55K give or take a few thousand. I was estimated to have $3.8 million after 25 years and I still laugh at how they come up with those figures.
"The next thing you know, ol' Jebs a millionaire"
Ummmmmmm, NO !!!!