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Hybrids - Long On Mileage, Short On Soul

89 messages,  Last post on Sep 28, 2008 at 3:24 PM

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#80 of 89 Re: Lexus LS 600 hL [hpmctorque] by nippononly Apr 19, 2006 (6:30 am)
Replying to: hpmctorque (Apr 16, 2006 7:33 am) "V-12 performance with V-8 fuel economy"? Heavy weight is probably OK in a car like this, but it sure would have been nice if they could have lightened it by half a ton and achieved the performance and fuel economy increases without the hybrid powertrain, eh?   We have yet to see how true these claims by Toyota really are. They made similar claims for the GS450H, and it seems it isn't much faster than the GS430 gas, nor does it do much better than that model in fuel economy. These are only short-term tests so far though - I would like to see one of those 12-month tests where they average fuel economy over a large period of time/number of miles. Replies to this message: gagrice (Apr 19, 2006 7:15 am)
#81 of 89 Re: Lexus LS 600 hL [nippononly] by gagrice Apr 19, 2006 (7:15 am)
Replying to: nippononly (Apr 19, 2006 6:30 am) nor does it do much better than that model in fuel economy.   I don't think Lexus and economy have anything in common. That includes all the Lexus hybrids. If you spend $50k to $100k for a vehicle, cost of gas is of little importance.   PS I think Lexus is trying to break into the High end Luxury car market without having to build an engine that is competitive.
#82 of 89 gagrice by nippononly Apr 19, 2006 (8:58 am)
well, very true, very true. For some time now, Toyota has been saying that the Lexus hybrids will strictly be for performance and not for gas savings, which makes it slightly confusing when they include the part about "...with V-8 fuel economy..." in their promotional stuff.   But they already have a V-12 engine, which they are proposing to put in their new $100K+ sports car, and perhaps another model too, so it's not like they don't want to build larger engines. I think they are trying to hold to some sense of environmental responsibility, but it is stretching it when they are already producing these large V-8s for the Lexus line (the new one for the LS to be a 5.0). That's not that good for the environment any way you cut it. I applaud the intent, but the execution doesn't really match it.
#83 of 89 U.S. hybrid vehicle sales more than double in 2005 by rockylee May 05, 2006 (3:21 am)
They make up 1% of the auto market   http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060504/BUSINESS01/605040347/10- 14   Rocky
#84 of 89 Honda CR-Z Hybrid by hpmctorque Sep 25, 2008 (3:07 am)
It'll be interesting to see if the Honda CR-Z, which may be the spiritual successor of the CRX, will be the first production hybrid that's fun to drive. Sportiness plus good fuel economy should be a winning combination, and attract imitators. Replies to this message: corvette (Sep 25, 2008 5:08 pm)
#85 of 89 Re: Honda CR-Z Hybrid [hpmctorque] by corvette Sep 25, 2008 (5:08 pm)
Replying to: hpmctorque (Sep 25, 2008 3:07 am) That and the new Insight intrigue me, although I doubt if the new Insight will be fun to drive.
#86 of 89 Re: Honda CR-Z Hybrid (corvette) by hpmctorque Sep 25, 2008 (7:10 pm)
Yes, the new Insight interests me too, based on what I've read.
#87 of 89 In truth by boaz47 Sep 28, 2008 (12:35 pm)
Cars do not have soul anyway. They are machines and if one is designed simply for mileage that is what they should do best. To the driver that admires hyper mileage above hyper road holding a hybrid has more soul than a Porsche. Only the buyer has Soul. Unless the car is made in Korea.
#88 of 89 In truth by boaz47 (In truth by boaz47) by hpmctorque Sep 28, 2008 (1:07 pm)
"Cars do not have soul anyway."   It depends on how you define the term. Of course cars don't have soul in the human sense. Following that definition, music doesn't have soul either, but the word has more than one application.   In an automotive sense, a car that's a bit unique in the way it drives and responds, as opposed to generic, and one that has some character and is engaging to drive, can be described as having soul. Cars that drive like appliances, than deliver a bland driving experience, may have many positive attributes, but soul isn't one of them.   The capital of South Korea is Seoul. Replies to this message: boaz47 (Sep 28, 2008 3:24 pm)
#89 of 89 Re: In truth by boaz47 (In truth by boaz47) [hpmctorque] by boaz47 Sep 28, 2008 (3:24 pm)
Replying to: hpmctorque (Sep 28, 2008 1:07 pm) "The capital of South Korea is Seoul." Hence the wink.   Soul is totally subjective and if the greatest joy a person can have is better fuel mileage hybrids can have that subjective soul.   Still there are no anthropomorphic qualities to cars. They are tools and nothing more. A car that had this elusive "soul" 20 years ago would either lack all of that "soul' or acquire character. My old Sprite might have had soul by some subjective qualification but what was it? Does skid pad holding ability equal soul? Slalom speeds? Race track credibility? Or the fact that one individual simply likes the way their car drives? No, it is nothing more than an attempt by some to give a reason why they like one vehicle over another. But it doesn't exist for the car without the driver.   The musical instrument doesn't have soul the human playing the music can impart something we call soul. Lucile in my hands has no soul, but for BB King? Cars are the same.   To someone from green peace a Prius would maybe show soul but to them a Porsche would be a soulless as a SUV.

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