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Automotive News & Views Toyota in decline in 2009?
3561 messages, Last post on Nov 25, 2009 at 9:54 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Nov 07, 2009 7:18 am) I would think they would be required to upgrade the 3.8 Million being recalled as well. At least for the people that feel vulnerable. Many poster's here like living on the ragged edge. So they can keep their cars as is. |
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Nov 07, 2009 5:40 am) I'll grant that reports have been circulating for some time. However it's the direction of the vector of these reports that indicate to me that they are questionable. To wit.. We have reports of UIA from drivers who may or may not have been involved in crashes. However other than All Weather mats there are no verifications of anything else occuring of these reports. There's nothing from... ..the NHTSA ..any insurance company ..any crash scene investigator ..any current or former Service Mgr ..any current or former sales person. IMO if there were a more systemic problem that someone, anyone would be going public with some verifiable data. Now I know the feelings of some hereabouts about governmental lackeys. However the real pitbulls from which I've seen nothing are ... the insurance companies. These are the ones that have real solid financial vested interests in finding the root cause here. These are the ones that lose money every time a crash occurs. These would be the ones most interested in eliminating systemic errors. There's nothing from them. All the vectors point AWAY from the operators. 'Nope I didn't do anything wrong Officer the car just took off on its own'. Hmmmm. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 07, 2009 6:08 am) Your Sequoia, my Prius, your next Tahoe, a Milan, a Ram all of them are going to lose braking capability at WOT when the brakes are applied unless the throttle is cancelled somehow via smart pedals. This is not particular to one maker or another. It doesn't matter which vehicle the SD driver was using. If it happened in a Ford then he'd have been in the same danger, ditto GM, ditto Honda.
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Nov 07, 2009 6:19 am) In the SD crash on Rte 125 the crash occurred after a long downhill exit from the highway...not an upslope. Another complication, gravity entered to work against that family. Apparently he had been trying to stop for some time as well. If the 911 call took 50 sec then he probably realized that he was in danger well before that. All auto testers recognize brake fade after multiple braking attempts. Now combine brake fade with no boost due to the throttle being at WOT. Try your test again down that slope while braking over a period of 2-3 min at WOT......you'll probably want to eject.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Nov 07, 2009 7:58 am) It doesn't take long for a caliper to reach 400 degrees under long braking from 100 mph going downhill. Normally that wouldn't matter because the rotor and caliper can shed enough heat to keep the brake fluid from boiling up the line but if the throttle is wide open they aren't going to be able to shed heat fast enough. Maybe if the brakes were applied hard so that the brake assist kicked in and full force was being applied it would make a difference. But if the brakes were applied slowly at first then brake assist wouldn't kick in but heat would still build up in the system. This was in Socal in the summer too right? It was probably already close to a 100 degrees ambient that day. Every car built for the last probably 20 years has brakes powerful enough to overpower the engine. Inside Line's own test of a E350 VS. a new Lacrosse have the 60-0 stopping within a few feet of each other. The brakes aren't underpowered for their class. The FWD TL has similar stopping distance from 60. The problem is once the brake fluid boils at a little over 400 degrees you are done for. No more brakes at all then. |
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Replying to: british_rover (Nov 07, 2009 10:28 am) |
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| Most any piece of machinery has a kill button/switch. It immediately (not 3 long seconds later) shuts down the power in an emergency. For many years the key switch on cars has provided that function. For 99% of drivers that is the intuitive method of shutting off the engine. Turn the key to off and the engine shuts down. This is a major design/safety flaw when Toyota didn't provide such an obvious kill switch, easily accessible to both driver and passenger, when they went to the new push button. Had that been provided, the brake and floor mat issue wouldn't be nearly as relevant. | |
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Replying to: surrfurtom (Nov 07, 2009 11:27 am) But actually there's an easier and safer method. When you kill power to the vhehicle, any vehicle, you lose all power assists. It's not impossible to control it but it's a lot harder to do so. Shifting to Neutral is much better. Doing this disconnects the wheels from the throttle and all power assists are still available.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Nov 07, 2009 7:52 am) Your Prius will not lose braking assistance at WOT. The vacuum is provided by an electrically driven pump.
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Replying to: grandtotal (Nov 07, 2009 2:11 pm) |
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Automotive News & Views Toyota in decline in 2009?
