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Automotive News & Views Toyota in decline in 2009?
3561 messages, Last post on Nov 25, 2009 at 9:54 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: 210delray (Nov 06, 2009 6:33 pm) The group doesn't come across as ambulance chasers. Indeed if there's a wrong done to me or my family, I could think of noone better at finding the little facts hidden away about what really happened than a crack group of attorneys used to delving into the hidden corners of a company's secrets. I'd want Stan Chesley, Cincinnati, as a class action suit leader in that kind of case. A friend who suffered as a result of either doctor, hospital, or staple gun manufacturer error has one of the best attorneys checking on his case. At least the posting got our Toyota salesman's notice!  Do the Toyota sales people really, really believe that people will buy the theory that the reported cases of unintended acceleration are due to floor mats OR due to being made up?
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Replying to: andres3 (Nov 06, 2009 10:11 pm) And when it fails by no fault of the owner? The Brakes just burn up trying to stop the car. That is what happened. The brakes were inadequate on that ES350 to stop the car at high speed. They were according to eye witnesses ON FIRE. So is that the drivers fault? I don't believe that it is. Toyota has a history of denial until they are routed out by shear numbers of complaints. I have not forgotten the 100s of Prius stalling for no good reason other than poorly written code in their ECU. The accidents caused by that Toyota failure had nothing to do with the driver's making sure his equipment was in good condition.
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 07, 2009 6:08 am) Why didn't the Toyota Camry involved do the same?
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 06, 2009 4:35 pm) Yes the dope(s) who jumped the gun at Toyota should be flogged and lashed for stupidity. However the NHTSA doesn't say anything that hasn't been stated already. It only slaps down the dummies at Toyota for bad PR. You highlighted the relevant section. and "does not correct the underlying defect in the vehicles involving the potential for entrapment of the accelerator by floor mats, which is related to accelerator and floor pan design." This is about entrapment of the accelerator by the floor mats. NOTHING else. Avoiding this is what is being studied by both Toyota and the Feds. All your other scary goblins are just fog and smoke. Stick to these facts. Having looked at a bunch of vehicles including your Sequoia there is no way for the OEM carpetted mats to block the accelerator. This has never even been a question at NHTSA. But they have to do something for their own PR. They have to seem like they're taking charge so that they don't get excoriated in the press like they were after their hands-off actions with Ford/Firestone. They will 'force' Toyota to redesign it's pedal to raise it up a half inch or so that is it even farther away from the floor. They will 'force' Toyota to install smart pedals on all new vehicles ( prolly in the works anyway ). And then they'll declare victory!!! The smart pedals are the key to solving this. Every maker will have them soon IMO.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Nov 07, 2009 7:18 am) I would think they would be required to upgrade the 3.8 Million being recalled as well. At least for the people that feel vulnerable. Many poster's here like living on the ragged edge. So they can keep their cars as is. |
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Nov 07, 2009 5:40 am) I'll grant that reports have been circulating for some time. However it's the direction of the vector of these reports that indicate to me that they are questionable. To wit.. We have reports of UIA from drivers who may or may not have been involved in crashes. However other than All Weather mats there are no verifications of anything else occuring of these reports. There's nothing from... ..the NHTSA ..any insurance company ..any crash scene investigator ..any current or former Service Mgr ..any current or former sales person. IMO if there were a more systemic problem that someone, anyone would be going public with some verifiable data. Now I know the feelings of some hereabouts about governmental lackeys. However the real pitbulls from which I've seen nothing are ... the insurance companies. These are the ones that have real solid financial vested interests in finding the root cause here. These are the ones that lose money every time a crash occurs. These would be the ones most interested in eliminating systemic errors. There's nothing from them. All the vectors point AWAY from the operators. 'Nope I didn't do anything wrong Officer the car just took off on its own'. Hmmmm. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 07, 2009 6:08 am) Your Sequoia, my Prius, your next Tahoe, a Milan, a Ram all of them are going to lose braking capability at WOT when the brakes are applied unless the throttle is cancelled somehow via smart pedals. This is not particular to one maker or another. It doesn't matter which vehicle the SD driver was using. If it happened in a Ford then he'd have been in the same danger, ditto GM, ditto Honda.
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Nov 07, 2009 6:19 am) In the SD crash on Rte 125 the crash occurred after a long downhill exit from the highway...not an upslope. Another complication, gravity entered to work against that family. Apparently he had been trying to stop for some time as well. If the 911 call took 50 sec then he probably realized that he was in danger well before that. All auto testers recognize brake fade after multiple braking attempts. Now combine brake fade with no boost due to the throttle being at WOT. Try your test again down that slope while braking over a period of 2-3 min at WOT......you'll probably want to eject.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Nov 07, 2009 7:58 am) It doesn't take long for a caliper to reach 400 degrees under long braking from 100 mph going downhill. Normally that wouldn't matter because the rotor and caliper can shed enough heat to keep the brake fluid from boiling up the line but if the throttle is wide open they aren't going to be able to shed heat fast enough. Maybe if the brakes were applied hard so that the brake assist kicked in and full force was being applied it would make a difference. But if the brakes were applied slowly at first then brake assist wouldn't kick in but heat would still build up in the system. This was in Socal in the summer too right? It was probably already close to a 100 degrees ambient that day. Every car built for the last probably 20 years has brakes powerful enough to overpower the engine. Inside Line's own test of a E350 VS. a new Lacrosse have the 60-0 stopping within a few feet of each other. The brakes aren't underpowered for their class. The FWD TL has similar stopping distance from 60. The problem is once the brake fluid boils at a little over 400 degrees you are done for. No more brakes at all then. |
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Replying to: british_rover (Nov 07, 2009 10:28 am) |
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Automotive News & Views Toyota in decline in 2009?
