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Automotive News & Views Toyota in decline in 2009?
3864 messages, Last post on Dec 09, 2009 at 11:15 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 06, 2009 12:31 pm) When you can bring actual evidence from an impartial agency or company showing data confirming such instances then I'll believe them. Data and facts are the only arbiters. To balance out these 'reports' let me make the following 25,000 'reports'...seriously. In the 10 yrs working here we've handled at least 25,000 new vehicles. Neither I nor anyone at this location has ever run into an unintended acceleration issue. Not only that but neither has our Chevy store, our Honda store nor our Hyundai store ever run into any such issue. Based on this experience I'm calling BS on the other reports. Show me I'm wrong with factual evidence.
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Nov 06, 2009 1:01 pm) This is a surprise? I believe that the poster was complaining about the throttle / gearing logic not unintended acceleration. |
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Replying to: andres3 (Nov 06, 2009 3:23 pm) |
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Nov 06, 2009 1:19 pm) The 'data' that they list is a paraphrasing of the NHTSA information but it falsely states the problem as sudden acceleration. The ambulance chasers can put anything they want on their website.....and you took it hook, line and sinker. The problem is 'unintended acceleration' .... as probably caused by mats.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Nov 06, 2009 4:23 pm) Toyota said in a statement on Monday that NHTSA had confirmed "that no defect exists in vehicles in which the driver's floor mat is compatible with the vehicle and properly secured." But NHTSA said that was inaccurate and the government was investigating possible causes of the acceleration problem. Removing the floor mats was "simply an interim measure" and "does not correct the underlying defect in the vehicles involving the potential for entrapment of the accelerator by floor mats, which is related to accelerator and floor pan design." "The matter is not closed until Toyota has effectively addressed the defect by providing a suitable vehicle based solution," NHTSA said in the statement, which the department said was issued to correct "inaccurate and misleading information" from the automaker. Toyota spokesman John Hanson said "it was never our intention to mislead or provide inaccurate information. Toyota agrees with NHTSA's position that the removal of the floor mats is an interim measure and that further action is required. We continue to discuss an appropriate vehicle remedy or remedies." http://www.bellinghamherald.com/bizwire/story/1144264.html Toyota knows they have a bigger problem than mere floor mats. So why would anyone trust a car salesman more than an attorney? I have heard them both denigrated equally. Though I would cut a car salesman a bit more slack. 
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Nov 06, 2009 4:05 pm) I am not sure you would believe a fact if you were confronted with it face to face. How about "Dead Cops Don't Lie". We have for a fact 5 fatal accidents in Toyota built vehicles, all attributed to runaway acceleration. Toyota claims it is the floor mats which it very well may be. However Toyota designed both the accelerator and the floor mats that are involved. So who is to blame? As far as no runaways of the 25,000 vehicles your agency has sold. Just lucky I guess. That does not negate the fact that there have been runaway ToyLex vehicles.
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Nov 06, 2009 1:19 pm)
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 06, 2009 12:31 pm) The second says the accelerator stuck continuously, but the engine stalled. That doesn't make sense to me. The 3rd one sounds like a very typical crash situation -- "Officer, I applied the brakes hard, enough that the ABS activated, but I couldn't stop until I hit the tree!" Explain to me how ABS can kick in, but the car not stop -- maybe the road was icy, OR more likely, he STARTED braking way too late to avoid the crash.: Yes, as kdh says, we need more information here. I'm sure I could pick a car, any popular car, and find reports like these. I've seen some before -- they can be hilarious.
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 06, 2009 4:35 pm) NHTSA did deny a petition by an individual for a formal defect investigation of sudden acceleration in certain Toyota and Lexus cars. NHTSA however did not close the books on the inquiry, and Toyota earlier stated that they would provide owners with an INTERIM letter recommending removal of the driver's floormats on 3.8 million vehicles. Toyota also stated it fully intended to send out another letter (including a recall notice) once a better solution to the problem could be found. |
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And here is what I found: The instructions state that the pushbutton start (optional) has 3 modes -- Off, Accessory, and On and explains how to toggle between the 3 modes. Notably, ON can't be activated unless your foot is on the brake pedal (good idea of course). To start the engine, you push ON and then release the button once the starter begins to crank. Cranking will continue for several seconds (with your finger off the button) until the engine fires up. However, there isn't a single word about what it takes to turn the engine off if the car is in motion. Do you press the button twice, hold it down for x seconds, or something else? No mention. The instructions appear to always assume the car is stopped whenever you touch the button. I also noticed GM removed the rather lengthy chapter about defensive driving that they had provided in recent years. Maybe they figured that no one really reads the manual anyway, so why waste space with something that doesn't pertain directly to the car itself? A pity, because it was actually well written IMO. |
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