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Automotive News & Views Toyota in decline in 2009?
3541 messages, Last post on Nov 25, 2009 at 2:16 PM
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Nov 06, 2009 10:52 am) Well, as they say, hindsight is always 20/20. I'll admit, that if this had happened to me, I wouldn't have thought to check the floor mat, simply because I've never had a car that was designed that way. All of my cars either have the gas pedal suspended so far above the floor you can actually get your foot under it, or they've had the pedal mounted to the floor, hinged at the base, so if a mat slid, it would slide up and over the pedal, but not catch the bottom of it and jam. My first thought would be to put the car in neutral and kill the power to the engine. Of course, now that this floor mat thing has been blasted from the rooftops, the mat is probably the first thing I'd check!
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 06, 2009 7:10 am) Why??? 
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Replying to: andre1969 (Nov 06, 2009 11:19 am)
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I just got back from lunch with my wife and we took the minivan that has a column shifter. I asked her if she knew how to shift the van into neutral if it were moving and to show me how (she was riding shotgun). So she indicated that she would put her palm on the shift lever facing her, and pull the lever in and then over. She didn't know she was doing it "wrong". I bet 99.9 % of the population does it that way too. Somewhere along the way I learned that the correct way to shift a running vehicle into Neutral or 3-2-1 was to put your palm on the shift lever facing away from you (ie, your palm faces the hood). Try it - it's easy to shift into neutral or low, but you can't shift into reverse or park without moving your hand and pulling the lever toward you. One bud of mine uses the flat of his palm - pushes down for 3-2-1 and pushes up (but not toward his body) for neutral. Does anyone have a column shifter that doesn't work this way (and how many of y'all know about this technique?). Here's a pic from my manual; I was thinking I could go from D to 2 without pulling the lever forward but I guess not: 
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Nov 06, 2009 10:44 am) The NHTSA ODI is loaded with complaints. I will give you a few to think about as you only go to the Rah Rah Prius boards. 2004 TOYOTA PRIUS HAVING PROBLEMS STARTING.**CC THE CONSUMER STATED AFTER SEVERAL TRIES, THE VEHICLE STARTED, HOWEVER WHEN HE SHIFTED INTO THE DRIVE, THE ENGINE RACED AND THE VEHICLE LURCHED FORWARD RAPIDLY, EVEN THOUGH THE ACCELERATOR HAD NOT BEEN APPLIED. THE CONSUMER WAS UNABLE TO STOP THE VEHICLE BY USING THE BRAKES. THE VEHICLE CONTINUED FORWARD ABOUT 25 FEET AND CRASHED INTO A GARAGE. THE CONSUMER RECEIVED MINOR SCRATCHES TO HIS KNEE. THE CONSUMER ALSO NOTED THAT THE AIR BAGS DID NOT DEPLOY. *JB THE ACCLERATOR STUCK CONTINUOUSLY, CAUSING THE VEHICLE TO STALL AND SHUTDOWN. DEALER HAS BEEN UNABLE TO DUPLICATE THE PROBLEM ,AND THE MANUFACTURER OFFERED NO SOLUTION. *AK TL* THE CONTACT OWNS A 2004 TOYOTA PRIUS. WHEN HE APPLIED PRESSURE ON THE BRAKE PEDAL AT 50 MPH IN THE DARK, THE VEHICLE WOULD NOT STOP. THE ANTI-LOCK BRAKE SYSTEM ACTIVATED, BUT THE VEHICLE DID NOT STOP. CONSEQUENTLY THE VEHICLE CRASHED INTO A TREE. THE VEHICLE WAS COMPLETELY DESTROYED. HE SUSTAINED INJURIES. THE FAILURE MILEAGE WAS 62000. THE VEHICLE IDENTIFICATION NUMBER WAS UNAVAILABLE. I picked the first 3 with accidents out of 100s of complaints filed with the NHTSA on just the 2004 Prius. I am sure that Toyota would like to forget about all the problems they had with that vehicle when it came out. You can try to discredit what I say all you want. I am not that easily intimidated by car salesmen. September 10, 2007 Federal safety regulators at the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration say they are "aware of" complaints of runaway acceleration in the popular Toyota Prius hybrid and are in a "monitoring mode." "It is currently like dozens, or maybe hundreds, of other issues of this kind," an agency official said.
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Replying to: lemko (Nov 06, 2009 12:14 pm) Try that with an old pushbutton Torqueflite, at least the 1957 model, and it wouldn't work. At any forward speed greater than 10 mph it just goes into neutral as a safety feature. Or at least, it's supposed to. I never tried it out on my DeSoto, and I'm not about to! I do know from experience though, that throwing a '68 Dart into park at a forward speed of roughly 30 mph will stop it almost immediately. And stall it out. But thankfully, do no permanent damage (at least, that one time it happened it didn't) 
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Replying to: mcdawgg (Nov 06, 2009 10:24 am) No absolutely not, false conclusion. There is plenty of money to be made in car manufacturing, even for an ignorant customer base. Just look at all the fuss around child car seats these last few years, instructions all over the inside of the car AND the outside of the car seat, still AAA regularly publishes estimates that over 50% of them are mounted improperly. Point is, they slapped stickers and warnings everywhere, added gear (LATCH system) to every car sold to try and make it easier for the consumer (whose life is much too busy to make sure that his/her kids are safely installed in the car by reading the manual of either the car or the child seat), and they go right on selling cars at a tidy profit. When that first improperly secured child goes rocketing onto the interstate, they will have lots of evidence to show the judge that they took extra precautions to keep that kid safe. Toyota has to assume the American consumer is even more ignorant than their current assumptions, and engineer accordingly, as do all car manufacturers. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 06, 2009 12:31 pm) Googling "toyota tacoma acceleration problem" or "'Toyota throttle problems" gave lots of links to Tacoma problems with UA: toyota tacoma acceleration problem in toyotanation which amusingly had all kinds of Toyota floor mats ads on it!!! One person in the RAV4 discussion said, "I did look up throttle problems and as a result my dealership had a Toyota engineer from Boston come up to Maine to inspect my vehicle. At one point while I was driving the Rav started to act up when I lightly pressed the accelerator while proceeding out of an intersection. The engineer said my computer was "confused" and that was due to "applied learning" by the computer. He said it has a "memory" and if you are lead foot it will remember that after 5-6 hours of driving and will try to respond accordingly. I said then why isn't it consistent every time I step on the gas I am not a lead foot anyway] and what about all the city drivers who need to be quick on the pedal, why aren't they having my issues. He changed the subject. He drove it for the afternoon and of course it wouldn't act up. He concluded it was due to the all season rubber mats I bought thru Toyota even tho I told him the problem occured when there was no floor mat at all. While we were driving I had him try with his foot to get that rubber mat to budge and he couldn't do it. He told me not to use the $100.00 mats anyway I bought from Toyota and he will see that they give me free of charge a set of factory floor mats. I said he was insane and now I knew Toyota was trying to kill me if they want to give me the very floor mats that they are blaming for my problem and what caused the death of that family this past summer. He said not to worry that they will be permenently secured to the seat. Since when does my floor mat need a seatbelt??? I really am out of viable options now and must pray that someone else brings it to their attention before I or anyone else get killed. Consumer affarirs.com has since received numerous complaints from new Prius owners complaining of the same problem" the Toyota rep told the owner it was "confused" computer due to its memory... Kind of interesting... that the guy changed the subject to floor mats to avoid the real question that's the elephant behind the tree: Is it a computer problem?
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Nov 06, 2009 1:01 pm) Virtually every one of them has been proven, when tested in court, to be "driver error." Certainly and of course not saying that EVERY SINGLE ONE of them has been, but many of them are. |
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Nov 06, 2009 1:01 pm) By October 2009, Toyota was forced to finally acknowledge sudden acceleration problems in the following vehicles: 2007-2010 Toyota Camry 2005-2010 Toyota Avalon 2004-2009 Toyota Prius 2005-2010 Toyota Tacoma 2007-2010 Toyota Tundra 2007-2010 Lexus ES350 2006-2010 Lexus IS250 2006-2010 Lexus IS 350 >WASHINGTON -- A relatively new technology, the electronic throttle, is a leading suspect in a wave of claims that some vehicles unexpectedly accelerate out of control. Government investigators are looking at 2002-03 Toyota Camrys and Solaras and Lexus ES 300s to determine if they are defective. More than a million cars are in service. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has begun a preliminary investigation of the latest claims. It is gathering about 37 complaints of sudden acceleration by owners of the Toyota and Lexus cars. The complaints include 30 reports of crashes. They involved injuries to five people; one of them was seriously hurt. According to AutoSafety.org, by the year 2000, there had been more than 22,600 reported complaints of sudden acceleration. More than five years ago, Toyota and NHTSA identified the electronic throttle as the most likely source of the sudden acceleration defect. However, Toyota continued -- and continues today -- to dismiss concerns about its throttle control system and has looked only at the floor mat issue.b> |
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