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Automotive News & Views Toyota in decline in 2009?
3864 messages, Last post on Dec 09, 2009 at 11:15 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Nov 02, 2009 8:11 pm)
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Replying to: corvette (Nov 03, 2009 5:55 am) How far are we asking automakers to go to compensate for the ignorance of American drivers? Because it's already further than they are asked to go in other countries/continents. And if they slap a sticker on the dash of every button-start Toyota and Lexus model telling people the emergency stop procedure, they will have gone further than I think common sense dictates. |
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Replying to: houdini1 (Nov 02, 2009 8:03 pm) Not really. That is how our government operates. Toyota I am sure has a big budget for lobbying Congress. All it takes is the right amount to the right legislator and voila' no more investigation by a government agency. They have dropped their investigations on the same problem in the past. Runaway acceleration just keeps popping up with Toyota. Seems they would fix the problems. They know they have them. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration last Wednesday denied a petition by a Tacoma owner who said his truck suffered two instances of sudden acceleration in January and noted 32 similar complaints to NHTSA. Toyota Motor Corp. told the agency earlier this year that 431 customers had complained of such events, including 51 crashes and 12 injuries. But Toyota also had argued that many of the complaints were "inspired by publicity," and no flaws had been found in the truck. NHTSA's investigation covered 775,000 Tacomas built between the 2004 and 2008 model year. Makes me wonder
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 03, 2009 7:26 am) Ah, the old conspiracy theory rears its ugly head. "Autospies.com," give me a break! We went through this same thing with the Audi 5000 in the late 80s. Once CBS broadcast their infamous 60 Minutes story, everyone with an Audi was alleging the same problem. Just because someone says its so (like that Tacoma owner) doesn't make it so. You have to investigate each incident in detail. I read NHTSA's report on the ES/Camry cases, and in my opinion, this was investigated thoroughly and seriously.
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 03, 2009 7:26 am) Sudden Unintended Acceleration! OH What A Feeling! I Didn't Ask For It But I Got It! Just sold my 2007 Tacoma 4cyl automatic at auction for a $3000. loss after hearing NHTSA closed its investigation - so this truck won't kill me next time it happens unless the next owner impacts me in an uncontrolled acceleration. These full-throttle unintended accelerations happened to me five times since I bought the truck 17 months ago. None of the occurrences were related to floor mats or accidentally stepping on the gas instead of the brake. My experience was that it always happened while the air conditioner was running AND as I released the gas pedal just after accelerating, and not as the brake pedal was pressed as many others have reported. My conclusion was that the air condioner compressor solenoid was causing an electrical surge in the gas pedal electronic throttle control circuit as the air conditioner cycled back on after being switched off for the acceleration. I understand that the Tacoma air conditioner drops out during accelerations, as most auto air conditioners do, to permit more engine power to be applied to the wheels. Not surprised then that no engine codes were ever generated. Toyota ignored my complaint of this serious fatal manufacturer defect. Toyota treated me as if I had reported seeing a UFO and as a result has lost my loyalty forever! Toyota Motors CEO should do the honorable thing regarding this ongoing threat to life and property and immediately impale himself on a sword. What shame this forever places on Toyota. Juan" Sounds well thought through to me. I wonder why Toyo treated him with disdain? Seems to be a pattern of "dumb customer caused sludge, poor shifting, and runaway motors." While I thoroughly understand some customers caused their own sludge with
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Nov 03, 2009 7:40 am) Geez, you could say the same about dumb GM customers using Dex-Cool, causing their plastic intake manifolds to leak. How about those dumb Ford customers not turning off their engines when exiting the car, which allowed the transmissions to self-shift from Park to Reverse? |
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Replying to: 210delray (Nov 03, 2009 7:30 am) Toyota claims 431 complaints and 51 crashes attributed to runaway acceleration. I don't call that insignificant. Do you really think the NHTSA investigated each of the 431 complaints or even the 51 crashes? The only reason they bothered with the ES350 runaway crash is all the publicity surrounding it. A veteran CHP officer and his family killed by a defective Lexus. The brakes did not stop the car. That is the bottom line the ToyLex fans would like to shuffle under the rug.
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 03, 2009 8:19 am) Or to put in into neutral. Terrible tragedy, just terrible. But the driver is partly at fault. There is no doubt of that. If this causes ToyoLex to fix an unknown, underlying problem that saves future lives, then all is well. But the entirety of the blame is NOT on the car, or it's systems.
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Replying to: larsb (Nov 03, 2009 8:28 am) Blame the driver for sludge. Possible. Blame the driver for shift lag in transmission software. Possible pattern expecting rapid acceleration after slowdown and downshift demand. But blame the driver for not putting the car in neutral? Blame the driver for not shutting the car off? The car should have had an intuitive shutdown procedure most likely a key or keylike switch that initiated shutdown without playing PC games. Incidentally, the idea that some pose that PC like shutdown of holding the Start button for 5 seconds may lead to software maldesign that some are trying to shut down talk about. This morning my HP laptop didn't show a screen on startup and wouldn't react to any inputs such as cmd-alt-del. The hard drive just didn't access. Also I couldn't shut down by holding the Start button for 5 seconds like usual. I looked on the back to see if it said "Toyota" anywhere... since it wouldn't shut down. 
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Nov 03, 2009 8:36 am) Now, if anyone else who has followed this story at all is ever in that same, unfortunate situation ( and if you are blaming Toyota design, there are hundreds of thousands of these cars on the road with potentially this problem ) they might survive it, or at least stop the car before it ends in a fatal crash. Myself, that would have never happened to me. I know that any time a car would have tried to "accelerate wildly" that putting the car into neutral is the first option. It's automatic in my mind. A no-brainer. Very sad that the CHP did not do this. But the case might save other lives, so although completely unfortunate for the family, it might save future lives, if there is indeed an "uncontrolled acceleration" problem which has yet to be diagnosed.
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