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Automotive News & Views Toyota in decline in 2009?
3864 messages, Last post on Dec 09, 2009 at 11:15 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: corvette (Nov 02, 2009 6:44 pm) The keyless ignition is a concern if the driver is not aware of how it's supposed to be used and/or disabled. But consider that this is one single instance, albeit a very prominent one, of a user not understanding the use of the system. Since there are over a million of these on the roads right now just from Toyota ( with Buick and others adding more daily ) blaming the system for what is literally a 1 in a million occurance is over-reacting. It's blaming the clutch for the error of the driver who's never driven a manual transmission. The pedal design has nothing to do with the issue unless one or mats are stacked on top of one another. If one uses the OEM carpetted mats and secures them properly then the pedal can in no way come in contact with the mat. Even if the carpetted mat was laid on top of the pedal artificially it still doesn't have enough weight to hold the pedal down. This is a non-issue except for speculators. The overheating brakes are an issue that comes from trying to slow the vehicle at speeds of 100-120 miles an hour...slow the vehicle, not stop it. If the brakes are applied to try to slow the vehicle down at these speeds at WOT they will overheat and the vacuum boost from the engine will be dissapated. But this is true on any vehicle. No one should try it unless they have a test track to try it on but if one could...hold the pedal all the way to the floor with one foot then try to slow down ( not stop ) with the other foot on the brake... then this is apparently what the NHTSA found in its report. The brakes will overheat and lose stopping power. But this has to be done at WOT at 100+ mph and not jamming the brakes to the floor at first. But the NHTSA says that the final determination won't be known until the 'black box' data is studied. It was still intact and in the possession of the local sheriff's office in SD county. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 02, 2009 7:48 pm) That Lexus dealer in San Diego couldn't have screwed up more if he wanted to....unless he didn't tell the driver how to operate the ignition system and how to stop the vehicle in an emergency.
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Replying to: steve_ (Nov 02, 2009 6:59 pm) It's very easy to verify ( done it on several vehicles already ) if this U-IA is even possible with the OEM carpetted mats and pedals. It isn't. |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Nov 02, 2009 8:11 pm) It is NOT true of any vehicle. The Germans have an over ride if you press on the brakes at high speed it tells the engine to ignore the WOT. Making it fail safe. VW/Audi have used this in their drive by wire cars since 2001. Toyota needs to get their drive by wire into the 21st century. BMW and MB have similar systems. 5 fatal accidents with ToyLex runaways is too many.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Nov 02, 2009 8:20 pm) Not hatred, just disappointment. I have bought 3 new Toyota vehicles over a 43 year span. They all were less than I would have expected from a company people worship as the greatest. After 2 years telling the dealer my NAV audio system is faulty it locked up with a CD and they have to get a replacement from New Delhi, India. How is that for stocking parts? That Lexus dealer in San Diego couldn't have screwed up more if he wanted to. No love lost there. That is the dealer that overcharged my wife for service for 15 years. $900 oil change and inspections. We have every record in a file. We would have dumped the car 5 years ago if I had not found a very good Lexus independent mechanic. 20 years old and still runs good. The dealer has been very quiet during this whole incident. So was it the yard kid or the parts man that will get nailed? Rubber floor mats in San Diego is crazy to start with. |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Nov 02, 2009 8:11 pm)
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Replying to: corvette (Nov 03, 2009 5:55 am) How far are we asking automakers to go to compensate for the ignorance of American drivers? Because it's already further than they are asked to go in other countries/continents. And if they slap a sticker on the dash of every button-start Toyota and Lexus model telling people the emergency stop procedure, they will have gone further than I think common sense dictates. |
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Replying to: houdini1 (Nov 02, 2009 8:03 pm) Not really. That is how our government operates. Toyota I am sure has a big budget for lobbying Congress. All it takes is the right amount to the right legislator and voila' no more investigation by a government agency. They have dropped their investigations on the same problem in the past. Runaway acceleration just keeps popping up with Toyota. Seems they would fix the problems. They know they have them. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration last Wednesday denied a petition by a Tacoma owner who said his truck suffered two instances of sudden acceleration in January and noted 32 similar complaints to NHTSA. Toyota Motor Corp. told the agency earlier this year that 431 customers had complained of such events, including 51 crashes and 12 injuries. But Toyota also had argued that many of the complaints were "inspired by publicity," and no flaws had been found in the truck. NHTSA's investigation covered 775,000 Tacomas built between the 2004 and 2008 model year. Makes me wonder
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 03, 2009 7:26 am) Ah, the old conspiracy theory rears its ugly head. "Autospies.com," give me a break! We went through this same thing with the Audi 5000 in the late 80s. Once CBS broadcast their infamous 60 Minutes story, everyone with an Audi was alleging the same problem. Just because someone says its so (like that Tacoma owner) doesn't make it so. You have to investigate each incident in detail. I read NHTSA's report on the ES/Camry cases, and in my opinion, this was investigated thoroughly and seriously.
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 03, 2009 7:26 am) Sudden Unintended Acceleration! OH What A Feeling! I Didn't Ask For It But I Got It! Just sold my 2007 Tacoma 4cyl automatic at auction for a $3000. loss after hearing NHTSA closed its investigation - so this truck won't kill me next time it happens unless the next owner impacts me in an uncontrolled acceleration. These full-throttle unintended accelerations happened to me five times since I bought the truck 17 months ago. None of the occurrences were related to floor mats or accidentally stepping on the gas instead of the brake. My experience was that it always happened while the air conditioner was running AND as I released the gas pedal just after accelerating, and not as the brake pedal was pressed as many others have reported. My conclusion was that the air condioner compressor solenoid was causing an electrical surge in the gas pedal electronic throttle control circuit as the air conditioner cycled back on after being switched off for the acceleration. I understand that the Tacoma air conditioner drops out during accelerations, as most auto air conditioners do, to permit more engine power to be applied to the wheels. Not surprised then that no engine codes were ever generated. Toyota ignored my complaint of this serious fatal manufacturer defect. Toyota treated me as if I had reported seeing a UFO and as a result has lost my loyalty forever! Toyota Motors CEO should do the honorable thing regarding this ongoing threat to life and property and immediately impale himself on a sword. What shame this forever places on Toyota. Juan" Sounds well thought through to me. I wonder why Toyo treated him with disdain? Seems to be a pattern of "dumb customer caused sludge, poor shifting, and runaway motors." While I thoroughly understand some customers caused their own sludge with
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