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Automotive News & Views Toyota in decline in 2009?
3673 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 7:32 AM
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Replying to: fintail (Jan 30, 2009 12:54 pm) 'Prius' and 'Tundra' Why? They're damn vehicles. Nothing more. Why does it matter what one thinks when one buys a Prius or Mustang or Volvo. It's a damn vehicle that in 15-20 yrs will be worthless.
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Replying to: anythngbutgm (Jan 30, 2009 11:25 am) Toyota's original plan for Prius was for it to be a technology showcase, which is where my remark was directed. And for that matter, they are probably onto something there - some buyers probably bought Prius because they perceived it to be technologically advanced, at least back in '04-'05. I see from kdh's remarks that they are set to introduce a fair amount of new tech into the Prius III, to keep it up with the times, and that's a good thing. My hope/fear is twofold: 1. that Toyota is aware we are in a recession and is not making a business model around 200K annual sales of the Gen 3, and 2. that Toyota is not pricing Prius right out of the market. After all, it will still be a smallish car, which at $30K is a challenging sale, even given its hybrid powertrain (STILL the highest-rated car for fuel economy on sale in the U.S.) and new tech features. My fears on both counts (1) and (2) will be compounded tenfold if Toyota sells the Prius II at a price of $20K right next to this new model. On a sidenote, I think it's funny that people take such offense at the idealistic view those few buyers take that they are making a standout statement on their eco principles by buying a Prius. Sure there are a few buyers like that but you can hardly ascribe that philosophy to all Prius owners everywhere, and so what if those few folks think that? Buying a Mercedes says you are rich, buying a Maserati says you are rich and like to show it, buying a Porsche says you are in your midlife crisis, buying a mondo-SUV says you are a big strong man with lots of outdoor pursuits, I could go on. All these themes are equally laughable.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Jan 30, 2009 1:01 pm)  FWIW, I was partially baiting our friend larsb. The Prius or its stereotypical driver is no more mockable than many others...but no less as well.
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Replying to: nippononly (Jan 30, 2009 2:05 pm) Around here it says you are a 5' 2" blonde soccer Mom with a cell phone permanently attached to your ear. So much for image. |
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Replying to: nippononly (Jan 30, 2009 2:05 pm) However.. if the economy stays in the pits,...if the economy is so severely damaged that the recovery takes years to bring us back to where we were,....if the currency issue gets worse and worse, ...if the pricing in the high $20's is too much for our diminished budgets, ...if... I think the G2.8 Prius stripped down will serve a good purpose. It will help catch those that might have stepped up to a $25000 G3 in the past but now cannot afford to do so. I think that it will also capture some new buyers, some. I also think that it will serve the same function as the Corolla to the Camry. The Corolla guards the rear of the Camry. It allows the Camry to be sold at $22000 MSRP and up. When I started here in the late 90's the new Camry's were being discounted into the $15900 range when things got tough. Now that doesn't happen very much if at all. Never here actually. Thus too the G2.8 Prius will guard the backside of the G3 Prius. "I'd love to have a Prius but $26500 is just too much." "Well, how about one that looks the same, has the same room, still gets 48mpg day after day, is rock solid and dependable....and only costs $19,995?" |
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Replying to: fintail (Jan 30, 2009 2:12 pm) Soccer-Moms, Enviro-weenies, Fat old Caddy owners, ghetto dubs, redneck trucks with gun racks in the window all are potential targets of ridicule and mocking. Or...we could just not mock anyone or anything. They're just damn vehicles.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Jan 30, 2009 3:00 pm) |
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I think Prius ownership is admirable. While I don't need to drive something super exciting everyday, I have driven a Prius and it's about as much fun to drive as piloting an electric wheelchair. They also get very expensive depending on option package, getting dangerously close to the $30K range. One could buy an $18K Honda Fit Sport and save more over five years than the $30K Prius owner, who will not in five years make up the savings in gas between the price difference of the two cars. Not even close actually. I don't think the Prius is a particularly good looking car either, but looks are in the eyes of the beholder and should play no part of a purchase decision. So yes, I think it's admirable for anyone to buy such an expensive, unfun car to drive for what amounts to small gas savings over your garden variety Honda Civic/Honda Fit (my new car!), Toyota Corolla, Nissan Versa, Hyundai Elantra, Ford Focus etc. But really for all of the environmental concern espoused by Prius owners, I wonder what the environmental cost of lithium ion batter disposal is? Not to mention the owners cost for replacing those bad boys. I won't knock anyone for buying a Prius, but I'm still not sold on the cost/savings benefit of that car. Plus I really would be depressed walking out to drive that thing every day.
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Replying to: dgs4 (Jan 30, 2009 8:57 pm)  . As it turns out it's about $20500 when comparing a basic package #2 Prius to a less expensive vehicle ( depending on fuel prices of course ). So any vehicle less than $20000 is the better choice purely on the numbers. Everyone seems to understand this intuitively. But what if every vehicle under 'midsized' is disqualified from the comparison....my own case for example. I will not drive a small vehicle such as a Corolla or Civic and definitely not a Versa, Yaris or Fit under any circumstance. The 09 Corolla is right at the tipping point in this criterium since it's nearly the same size, power and quietness as the late 90's Camry's. But in comparing these two so dissimilar vehicles, the Fit Sport and the Prius, you open an entirely new question. In your stated view you are willing to choose a smaller vehicle with less options. Thus would you also consider a larger vehicle with more options...but also more miles? If you are comparing only the economics ( not styling or driving ) then it's also a perfectly valid choice to compare a new Honda Fit Sport with a 2 or 3 y.o. Prius at the same price. Now everything changes. The Prius is a killer deal - just by the numbers. Lots of options you have to think through. |
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Replying to: anythngbutgm (Jan 30, 2009 11:25 am) |
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