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Toyota on the mend?

16273 messages,  Last post on Apr 25, 2013 at 8:21 AM

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What is this discussion about? Toyota, Automotive News

    

Messages Page 1550 of 1628

#15484 of 16273 Re: Next IS [fintail] by ateixeira

Apr 24, 2012 (6:32 am)

Replying to: fintail (Apr 23, 2012 2:15 pm)
ES will (and should) remain the iso-chamber that it is now.
 
Some people want that. Plus, having it allows them to play with the IS.

#15485 of 16273 Re: Next IS [fintail] by ateixeira

Apr 24, 2012 (6:42 am)

Replying to: fintail (Apr 23, 2012 2:16 pm)
Cost isn't the main factor when you race past 50K
 
Agreed 100%, but in the comparo I'm referring to they put an over $50k Bimmer with the base 4 banger engine up against a $35k Infiniti.
 
Fair fight?
 
There was a time where the base BMW had the power deficit but had better handling and steering feel, so C&D would rave about how it had "soul" and it would still win.
 
Now it's the nearly half-priced Infiniti which had the better handling and superior steering feedback, and was named most fun to drive, yet the winner is .... BMW, even with the nose-bleed price.
 
C&D has always loved BMW and Honda, no doubt.
 
Spec chart from the comparo, with pricing:
 
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2012-bmw-328i-vs-2012-audi-a4-20t-2012-infin- - iti-g25-2012-mercedes-benz-c250-sport-2012-volvo-s60-t6-awd2012-bmw-328i-vs-2012- - -audi-a4-20t-2012-infiniti-g25-2012-mercedes-benz-c250-sport-2012-volvo-s60-t6-a- - wd-comparison-tests.pdf
 
A G37 Sport at $39,750 would still have been the cheapest (!) car tested.

#15486 of 16273 Re: Next IS [fintail] by ateixeira

Apr 24, 2012 (6:45 am)

Replying to: fintail (Apr 23, 2012 7:14 pm)
even the interior in the smaller car is like a scaled down version of the big barge
 
I agree...the new 5 has gotten too big/heavy to be the true sports sedan it used to be.
 
Heck, the one I drove, a 535i, felt a bit laggy. The E350 is more linear even if it's not as fast. The 550GT's V8 was much more satisfying, particularly off the line.
 
I can't imagine the lag in the still-heavy 528i would be much fun.

#15487 of 16273 Re: Next IS [ateixeira] by hpmctorque

Apr 24, 2012 (10:18 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Apr 24, 2012 6:45 am)
Interestingly, BMW keeps setting sales records, even though most models have lost the handling and driving attributes that made earlier ones legends. The only BMW I'd consider now would be a 3-Series, although I'd have to swallow hard to be forced to accept the run-flats. I imagine the 1-Series is an even better driver's car, but I don't care for its proportions and barely usable back seat.

#15488 of 16273 Re: Next IS [ateixeira] by fintail

Apr 24, 2012 (10:47 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Apr 24, 2012 6:32 am)
But will a non-sport GS will it be any less of an iso-chamber than an ES? Might be a tough sell if not specifically equipped (AWD).
 
IS needs some playing with, getting really long in the tooth now. I know the big engine has been tuned and is nice, but LEDs don't hide age.

#15489 of 16273 Re: Next IS [ateixeira] by fintail

Apr 24, 2012 (10:50 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Apr 24, 2012 6:42 am)
I think price is secondary for these cars, especially when so many are leased, and big MSRP difference become tiny lease payment differences. The price based argument is logical in a way, but I don't know if the market supports it. A comparison with similar engine displacements or power ratings would have been amusing too.
 
Now there's a car that needs to move on to a new cosmetic generation, the G. I think the current one dates back to just before the Franco-Prussian war, with barely any updates. The lowly $299 screamer lease G25 and the cars being very popular in fleets now doesn't help. G has to be cheap to make up for some other traits.

#15490 of 16273 Re: Next IS [ateixeira] by fintail

Apr 24, 2012 (10:54 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Apr 24, 2012 6:45 am)
When was it really a true sports sedan though? Maybe E39? Or E28? E60 doesn't seem sporty to me. New one is dulled up, but sells like hotcakes as did the softish Bangle E60. I don't know if the average affluent aging customer wants too much sport rather than the image of such.
 
I drove a 6 cylinder F11 528i Touring in Germany. Not an off the line speed demon, but a good Autobahn cruiser.

#15491 of 16273 Re: Next IS [fintail] by ateixeira

Apr 24, 2012 (12:28 pm)

Replying to: fintail (Apr 24, 2012 10:47 am)
I wasn't crazy about the current IS even when it was new. There's too much sheet metal under the C-pillar, it made the car look heavier than it is. The old IS looked smaller, lighter. I'm sure it was.

#15492 of 16273 Re: Next IS [fintail] by ateixeira

Apr 24, 2012 (12:40 pm)

Replying to: fintail (Apr 24, 2012 10:50 am)
The G leases well, though. Residuals are high despite its age.
 
So even if you're shopping lease prices, a G37 would easily have fallen in the same price range as the others in the comparison.
 
Any how, $50k for a 4 banger 3 series is sheer lunacy. And it won?

#15493 of 16273 Re: Next IS [ateixeira] by fintail

Apr 24, 2012 (2:11 pm)

Replying to: ateixeira (Apr 24, 2012 12:28 pm)
I thought it seemed very modern when new, but that was more or less 7 years ago now. It's also less than roomy feeling inside, and I suspect 80% of sales are IS250... sold to spoiled daddys girls and middle aged yawners who might even be duller than those who buy the competition. The model needs some new life and yesterday.
 
Old one was certainly a size smaller.

Messages Page 1550 of 1628

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