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Toyota on the mend?

16274 messages,  Last post on May 22, 2013 at 7:20 AM

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What is this discussion about? Toyota, Automotive News

    

Messages Page 1116 of 1628

#11147 of 16274 Re: Mercedes is No. 1 [gagrice] by smarty666

Nov 10, 2010 (4:43 pm)

Replying to: gagrice (Nov 10, 2010 4:28 pm)
Well if we went by your standards, then the only true luxury vehicles we should be getting are MB's and BMW's. I guess we can live in the fact that half of us would be spending our time watching our MB's and BMW's go up on tow trucks going off to the dealer to be fixed often. Yeah, that's real luxury we can believe in

#11148 of 16274 Re: Mercedes is not No. 1 [ctl] by steve_ HOST

Nov 10, 2010 (4:48 pm)

Replying to: ctl (Nov 10, 2010 4:38 pm)
And here I thought BMW was a performance brand, not a luxury brand.
 
And come to think of it, isn't Daimler the manufacturer and Mercedes is the brand?

#11149 of 16274 Re: Mercedes is No. 1 [fintail] by ctl

Nov 10, 2010 (4:44 pm)

Replying to: fintail (Nov 10, 2010 4:41 pm)
That's not true any more, wrong info for a few years now
 
Lexus is in NA, Europe, Asia, Japan, everywhere. There is no longer co-exist re-badge like before. Toyota has been cleaning up, they are not stupid, or they won't be where they are today
 
Lexus is a nonentity in the world outside of NA.

#11150 of 16274 Re: Mercedes is No. 1 [ctl] by smarty666

Nov 10, 2010 (4:46 pm)

Replying to: ctl (Nov 10, 2010 4:44 pm)
I was just going to post that but you beat me to it. Thanks for correcting some of the inaccuracies the Toyota/Lexus bashers have been spewing!

#11151 of 16274 Re: Mercedes is not No. 1 [steve_] by ctl

Nov 10, 2010 (4:52 pm)

Replying to: steve_ (Nov 10, 2010 4:48 pm)
BMW is a performance brand only in the marketing universe. I don't think their exec's or share holders care under what category (luxury/sport) that revenue was from, as long as they can keep it coming
 
And here I thought BMW was a performance brand, not a luxury brand.

#11152 of 16274 Re: Mercedes is No. 1 [ctl] by fintail

Nov 10, 2010 (7:13 pm)

Replying to: ctl (Nov 10, 2010 4:44 pm)
They are offered in Europe, but barely sold. Spend an hour in a ritzy section of London, Paris, Rome, Zurich, Berlin, etc etc etc and see how many Lexus you see. Compare that number to the Euro highlines. As I said, a nonentity.

#11153 of 16274 Re: Lexus is No. 1 [gagrice] by ateixeira

Nov 11, 2010 (7:26 am)

Replying to: gagrice (Nov 10, 2010 2:26 pm)
Are we sure that MB is not making any money on those C class leases?
 
According to Edmunds it's made in Germany, and we both know the Euro is much stronger than the dollar.
 
That lease is 218 Euros, so I think it's safe to conclude Mercedes is losing money on those.

#11154 of 16274 Re: Mercedes vs Lexus, let's separate the facts from the opinions [xlu] by ateixeira

Nov 11, 2010 (7:30 am)

Replying to: xlu (Nov 10, 2010 2:56 pm)
The ones not counted the Sprinter:
Bloomberg
Business Week
Forbes
 
You forgot the most important source: Mercedes-Benz!
 
You also left out Automotive News.
 
I'll issue a challenge: since you disagree with Mercedes, write them a memo and ask them to state their sales with Sprinter sales included from now on.
 
Good luck with that. Let us know how that goes.

#11155 of 16274 Re: Mercedes is No. 1 [fintail] by ateixeira

Nov 11, 2010 (7:51 am)

Replying to: fintail (Nov 10, 2010 4:42 pm)
RX and ES, as the most Toyota of Lexus, have to make up the bulk of sales indeed.
 
Correct, but similarly the C- and E-class make up the bulk of Mercedes-Benz sales. More than half.
 
So now let's look at prices (I'm using Edmunds as a source for all prices):
 
C-class: $33,600 and up
E-class: $48,050 and up
ES: $35,175 and up
RX: $37,625 and up
RX hybrid: $42,685 and up
 
So the RX is a bit cheaper than the E-class, but the cheapest car here is the C-class, and remember those $218/month leases are what it driving that volume (my guess is about a quarter of Benz sales happen at a loss).
 
Also remember Benz has more than DOUBLE the incentives per vehicle, well over $4 grand per.
 
Those who think the S-class is killing the LS, keep in mind that it's a fresher than the Lexus and Mercedes builds 5 powertrains for it vs. 2 for Lexus, and YTD sales are 11,512 to 9,489.
 
So with 250% as many powertrain variations to manufacture they get 21% more S-class sales.
 
That's good, but honestly, I think they should have a much bigger lead. 2 different AMGs? A hybrid? Two other engines? Lexus does nearly as well with just one V8 and a hybrid based on that same V8.

#11156 of 16274 Re: Mercedes is No. 1 [ateixeira] by gagrice

Nov 11, 2010 (8:41 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Nov 11, 2010 7:51 am)
I know you hate to give in. I have no idea if MB is making money. I would assume they are to stay in Business. If the news is correct ToyLex took are real hit when Japan dropped the subsidy this year.
 
And my second point. Where would Lexus be if not for the rebadged vehicles in their lineup.
ES350 just a fancy Camry
RX350 just a fancy Highlander
GX460 just a fancy 4Runner
LX570 just a fancy Landcruiser
HS250h a cramped bloated over priced Prius
 
So where would Lexus be without the fancy Toyotas being sold to the USA. And if Lexus is an entity all to itself why does Toyota claim it in their numbers? They give their sales increases with Lexus as part of the numbers. So why is it OK for Toyota to include Lexus and not for BMW or MB to include their other members? If you want to make it just Luxury cars then don't include all the rebadged Toyotas. The numbers game is what got Toyota in trouble to start with. I guess you want to carry on the tradition.
 
http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/document/October_PR_Sales_Chart.pdf

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