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Automotive News & Views Toyota in decline in 2009?
3807 messages, Last post on Dec 06, 2009 at 9:40 PM
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Toyota's denial of problems extended all the way down to the dealer level. I took delivery of a 2005 Sienna XLE AWD that had so many problems I thought I was driving a Yugo. The dealer refused to admit even the most obvious of them. I finally made them eat the vehicle, no cost too me, or face an embarrassing law suit. If they had acknowledged the problems and at least worked with me on them I would have kept the car! (I was a mechanic for 15 years which gave me a small edge on the smoke they were blowing.) I may look at the 2007 Sienna, being a slow learner and all. |
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Replying to: nippononly (Aug 28, 2006 10:23 am) That's the right approach, Nippon. The media believes they have a 'big story' on their hands with Toyota's quality troubles. In our 24 hour media culture repetition shapes opinion. That's unfair, but it's a reality big business has to contend with. Toyota can't let this "Toyota quality is slipping" narrative gain media traction. It won't get better on its own. |
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In some forums related to GM/ Ford, I hear people (including me) screaming that quality is hurting volume. Here we are talking whether volume is hurting quality... I need a few days to gather my thoughts and to start reasoning things backwards  What does this mean for consumers like me anyway... Avoid big manufacturers  Or, avoid those who recall
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Replying to: andy82471 (Aug 28, 2006 6:09 am) That is not what this is saying; "recalls have yet to affect significantly Toyota's standings in quality surveys" indicates that there is a lag in time between the occurrence of a quality problem and the recognition of same and then the perception that Toyota vehicles are associated with quality flaws. In other words, it takes time for the truth to get out. Mercedes-Benz is a further example of this. Even though their cars are and have been filled with flaws for years they got by on reputation established in years prior before the buying public realized that buying a Benz was tantamount to gambling insofar as quality was concerned. It will be no different for Toyota as the public becomes increasingly aware that the Toyota of 2006 is not the Toyota of 1996.
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Replying to: lahiri (Aug 28, 2006 10:54 am) Can't do that unfortunately. They all recall. Honda just recalled 1.2 million vehicles because they put an 800 area code on their (888) customer care line in their manual under customer arbitration.  Apparently, the (800) number they put is a sex line, to make matters worse. 
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Replying to: priggly (Aug 28, 2006 11:53 am) The surveys are sent by people actually own the car unlike you who passes his own personal opinions as facts.
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Replying to: motownusa (Aug 28, 2006 12:50 pm) I would say that when multiple credible publications such as the WSJ and BBC Online are rife with reports for anyone to read about Toyota quality implosion this is much more than an opinion. Please do try to stop twisting people's comments to fit your own bias.
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Replying to: priggly (Aug 28, 2006 12:57 pm)
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Replying to: priggly (Aug 28, 2006 11:53 am) Actually you are right ... sort of...but the environment has changed and the vehicles certainly have changed. As a result the entire perception of what is acceptable has changed and the companies are changing with the times. Consider... The Gen3 and Gen4 Camrys were not much different from any vehicle made since the 50's. All were mainly mechanical vehicles with a minimum of safety features ( seatbelts and front A/B ). The workings of the vehicles were mainly mechanical linkages which had been used and perfected for the better part of 50 years. Where Toyota and Honda shone in comparison to the other makers in the late 90's was that the assembly and the very basic mechanical linkages were simplified and made repetitive and nearly perfect. Since 1998 all of this has changed. In 1998 Toyota eliminated the distributor and went to its TDI system. Since then it has added ECT-i, ETC-i, VVTi, Trac, VSC, VDIM, RSCA, Dynamic Laser Cruise, Navi, hybrid technology, PSD ( eliminating the traditional tranny ), BT and electic steering. Under the skin today's vehicles are literally and figuratively in a different millenium. I would consider the Gen2 Camry/Avalon/Accord to be the peak of the mechanical auto. Now what is on the road, whether from Toyota, MB, Acura, et. al. is an electronic office or studio in the skin of an auto. Then there was the Ford/Firestone situation. The legal departments of all major companies whether auto or not learned what not to do during that fiasco. If there is a safety risk of any kind get on it right away and don't let it blossom to a full fledged disaster. This is just good business - by everyone. The way that Johnson and Johnson handled the Tylenol problem is the model. Get out in front admit the mistakes and fix them. All will be forgiven in time. Tylenol is stronger than ever as is J&J. With the exponientially more complex vehicles than even 8 years ago and the fact that these hugely different vehicles are just coming to market as the cutting edge of the technology of the 21st Century IMO makes it likely that for a while there will be 'learning curve' by both the manufacturers and the users of these new electronic devices we call autos. No auto maker will be able to stay back in the last century with a basically mechanical device, all will have to accept that the current buyer want's these high-tech vehicles. Now who do you want supplying them? |
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Replying to: motownusa (Aug 28, 2006 1:16 pm) Maybe you better re-read the post about there being a lag between the development of problems and the public's realization of same. The fact remains that TOYOTA as a brand is still much better than the domestics, and yes that THAT IS A FACT NOT AN OPINION. Sorry, bub, your unsubstantiated zeal for foreign cars notwithstanding, that is very much your opinion. It is very clear to any unbiased observer that the American car brands are on the ascending part of the curve with the worst being behind them, as exemplifed by the new Lincoln MKZ and several of the excellent current offerings from GM such as the Impala SS and the Buick Lucerne (check the Avalon board for reports of former Avalon owners who got burned on Toyota's junk and who sought refuge in the new Lucerne with great satisfaction), while Toyota and several other foreign car makers (VW, M-B for example) are on the descending part of the curve, and your unfounded enthusiasm will not change the situation. |
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