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Automotive News & Views Toyota in decline in 2009?
3772 messages, Last post on Dec 05, 2009 at 6:15 PM
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...it's okay for Toyota to have 2 million recalls because Ford was way worse? Pretty weak.
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Replying to: mirth (Dec 02, 2005 12:58 pm) There are way too many variables to even try figure it out, and even you could find a direct correlation, the margin of error would be huge.
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with the Toyota recalls is not the number compared to other manufacturers, but rather compared to itself in years past. They are increasing in number FAST. I did wonder why they would have to recall a group of trucks that were 10-16 years old though: almost all would be over 100K miles by now, and many would be much much higher (like my previous truck, which was under that recall, and which I had performed at almost 220K miles). If the flaw subject to recall takes THAT LONG to manifest itself, at what point do we say the manufacturer is no longer on the hook, and it is reasonable that it is the owner's responsibility? Toyota has done service bulletins and extended warranties on some things like head gaskets in the past, which could reasonably be expected to last the life of the engine, but something like the tie rods in that recall are subject to punishment by the road, and 100K is already a whole lot of miles for the manufacturer to still be on the hook if they then start to fail. Not that I minded the gift from Toyota of free new tie rods and an alignment at 220K miles! 
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Replying to: carlisimo (Dec 02, 2005 11:46 am) I remember reading in the 1990s that "the 4 wheel drive components on Toyota's small 1/2 ton trucks are rugged enough for use on a 1 ton truck - they should go almost indefinitely." I think that mindset is changing at Toyota. |
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of the best made cars EVER. About that time, Japan learned from Detroit that "if you build cars that last forever, you will sell fewer new cars" and since that time, corners have been cut for the sake of the bottom line. In the case of Toyota, that bottom line means 30-40 billion dollars in the bank and soon the rank as #1 car company in sales. |
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| "Any fool can make a building stand up, but it takes an engineer to make it barely stand up." | |
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I think Toyota still makes a quality car. However Toyota has had the following issues with the following cars: I got this reliability out of CR. Suspension Problems with 98-99 Avalon, 99 and 04 Solara(first year models for both of those Solara's.) Body Integrity issues with the 02 4 Runner, and 02-03 Solara(last years of that model in that bodystyle for the Solara) and 04 Solara(first year model.) Paint/Trim problems: with 04 and 05 Matrix and 01 and 02 Tacoma. braking problems with 01-03 Sequoia and 02 and 03 Sienna. A pre-02 Sienna has less braking issues the 02-03 models. Remember that Sienna ran from 98-03 in that particular bodystyle. Maybe Toyota was maybe going for cheaper suppliers that got them with the braking issues. Cr rated in these Trouble spots with these cars either under average or much worse than average in trouble spots like Body integity and paint/trim. I think Toyota has had problems in the past 3-5 years with body integrity and suspensions as well. What amazes me is an 02 Solara has more body integrity issues than than an 00 Solara. Isn't it supposed to be the other way around? A 1998 4 Runner has much less body integrity issues than an 02 4 Runner. In my opinion particularly during the 02-03 model year Toyota's plant in Kentucky was not constructing their cars in the proper manner or else Toyota wouldn't have all these body integrity issues. The suspension issues are alarming. I think Toyota soft handling cars are maybe sensitive to these suspension problems. However all these cars with suspension problems, paint/trim, braking and body integity issues that I just named are still are still either much better than average in reliability or better than average in reliability overall The 03 Seqioua is just average in reliability overall however. I don't know about Toyota stopping overengineering their parts. I mean Toyota has always prided themselves on making a quality product. Toyota cannot slip up on Body Integrity again though. The 02 and some 03 Camry's I have heard about sqeauking/rattling but I think Toyota did fix that problem somewhere in the production of the 03 Camry. I think Body integrity was part of the reason that the Camry temporariliy slipped to average in reliability for a short while in CR when the 02 Camry first came onto the market. BTW, I have heard about tranny problems with 02+ ES300/330 on these. CR even shows the tranny problem with the 02+ Es300/330. From 1998-2001 Cr ranked the trouble spot for "tranny" as excellent reliability for the last generation Es300(97-01.) With the 02+ ES 300/330 the trouble spot for tranny is just average with a white circle. The current Es300/330 ranks above average in reliability where as the the 98-01 Es 300 ranks much better than average reliability. The drop in reliability is marginal but I think Toyota's plant in Japan didn't work out the bugs with the 5 speed auto in the 02+ Es300/330. I also have seen drops in Lexus's ratings in CR. Cr ranks the 04 LS 430 under average for reliability in the trouble spot "tranny". For 05 though they ranks the 05 LS 430 in the tranny trouble as excellent. Remember 05 models ranked in reliability by CR have only 3,000 miles on them. However the tranny problem with the LS 430 dropped the 04 LS 430 to just average in reliability overall where as the 98-03 models were ranked excellent in reliability overall. Lastly the 05 SC has dropped to average overall in reliability. The 02-04 SC's ranked excellent in reliability. The 05 SC ranked under average in the trouble spot "paint/trim". Toyota's Lexus's plant in Japan having paint/ trim issues? That is shocking. I'm surprised about Lexus having some reliability bugs with their cars of late more than US built Toyota's having issues. Toyota Lexus's plant is among the best plants in the world at constructing a car in my opinion.
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| ...had a few trouble spots - notably the power steering pump and the electroluminescent instrument cluster. | |
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for everyone once they pass GM in sales. Everyone admired Microsoft while they were overtaking IBM: same for Wal Mart against K Mart and Sears. But - once you hit the top of the heap the crowd wants to see you displaced. |
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Replying to: lemmer (Dec 02, 2005 1:04 pm) There are way too many variables to even try figure it out, and even you could find a direct correlation, the margin of error would be huge. If that's true, then we shouldn't worry about Ford's recalls then either, right?
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